[lucid]

Originally Posted by mofomat

Ok, I will try to respond to your post, but I don't know where to start because it is full of so many glaring errors, and lack of understanding.



Who said they are close to what they can do with the available technology?



Porsche will be disappointed you've ignored them. The GT3 (997) has more than 115 bhp/litre. If BMW could achieve the same output from the 4.0 litre engine, then the CSL will have 460bhp. Even if they achieved 110bhp/litre then the CSL would have 440bhp. 414bhp doesn't seem so much now does it? Much more is possible, but BMW have to think about the 'slot' the M3 is filling. In between the M5/M6, and the forthcoming M1/M2 (whatever it will be called). The CSL would nicely fit above the standard M3 with about 440bhp.

It's the same as Porsche with the Cayman. Of course it's underpowered, but the engineers were not allowed to give it too much for fear of treading on the toes of the 911.



BMW are gunning for Porsche and the GT3. They intend to sell many more E92 CSL's compared to the E46 CSL. The E46 CSL was a much more experimental car than the E92 CSL will be. They were still learning to use plastic re-enforced carbon, and other weight saving techniques. These have filtered down into the standard M3 and M6, because BMW learnt to produce cars with this technology on a cost effective and mass produced scale. OK, they will still sell a lot less E92 CSL's compared to the standard M3, but that's where the halo effect of the CSL comes in.

BMW will debut a concept version of the M6 CSL at Frankfurt in September, with the production version in Geneva March 2008. As you can see, the CSL "brand" will be much more prominent in the future, and will be viewed as a new step up from the standard 'M' cars.



The M3 might be a different car to the M5/M6, but BMW still do not want to overlap on the power with the M5/M6. See again Porsche with the Cayman and the 911. The Cayman is a different market to the 911, but Porsche will still never encroach on the 911's territory.



This is nonsense. BMW have made it quite clear, many, many times, that they are not interested in solely going for power. BMW never base their marketing on the power of their cars. They promote driving dynamics, 50/50 weight distribution, rear wheel drive. It's in these three areas where Audi generally fall behind.

And I only think it's boy racers in parking lots that care about power and getting away from lights. BMW is certainly not targeting this market!



No it wouldn't. It would make it easier! The standard E92 M3 has an 'official' output of 414bhp, but lets say in reality it has 425bhp. That means to attain an official output of 440bhp for the CSL, the M engineers would only need to actually find an extra 15bhp, yet on paper it would look like they've found an extra 26bhp.



Do you honestly believe the M3 V8 is just the V10 with two less cylinders?

So some of the best engineers in the world have spent several years developing the V8, when all they had to do was to take the M5 engine and cut off two cylinders? Don't believe everything you read in the press.

The S65 V8 is a totally brand new engine and is at the start of what could be a ten year life cycle if the E36/E46 is anything to go by.


The E92 M3 is filling a niche. It's no coincidence that the power to weight ratio is exactly 250bhp/tonne.

The car weighs 1,655kg, therefore the power it was only ever going to have 'officially' is 414bhp.

Look at how it fits into the M brand products:

M6 (507/1785kg) 284bhp/tonne
M5 (507/1830kg) 277bhp/tonne
M3 (414/1655kg) 250bhp/tonne
Z4 M (343/1495kg) 229bhp/tonne

Possible future M1/M2

(350/1520kg est.) 230bhp/tonne.

As if you know what you are talking about...Anyway:

1. I omitted the GT3 because of the drastically different engine geometry. That doesn't allow for a relevant comparison. We are talking about extracting more power from a specific configuration.
2. In case you still don't get it, I am using the Ferrari engine as the benchmark for the state of the art.
3. Who cares about what the hp increase would look like on paper? We are talking about actual increases that can be experienced by an owner since we are comparing a regular M3 with a possible M3 CSL. I don't care if BMW will make things look better for the CSL because they did some clever hp accounting.
4. What's up with "boy racers"? So you don't care at all about your car's straight line acceleration? And, BMW doesn't either? Give me a break…What planet do you live on?
5. What do you know about what I have or have not read in the press? Are you denying that the V8 is a derivative of the V10? Who said anything about simply chopping off 2 cylinders? It is never that simple.

Man you really need to relax, try to understand what other people are saying, engage in some kind of productive discussion, and project less.

That's it from me--the last time I respond to any of your posts. Not worth it.