Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid
Swamp, you need to cool down here. I understand you have a certain impression of what "you" want to measure. That's fine, but it doesn't mean we can't engage in a discussion about what else might be interesting to measure. If someone wants to add another channel, why does that bother you so much as long as it does not interfere with the basic measurements we all agree on and are after? I appreciate hearing your perspective, but there is no need to act like a domain expert and lecture folks. The idea is to get a discussion going and obtain multiple perspectives.
You know as well as I do that the delay seems to be a function of throttle position. Even the actual shift time might be throttle position dependant. How will you consistently characterize "low" "medium" and "WOT" throttle inputs without any kind of objective reference? A wooden block sounds too crude to me (never mind potential safety issues with the block getting stuck somewhere unless you want to drill it into the floor panel). It would be much nicer if the actual throttle position was a part of the dataset. Plus, as I said ealier, I would like to use this setup on the track to log my own driving after we are done with this test, so I have other goals. I will pay for any additional costs associated with the potential position sensor.
You are exaggerating the potential issues with a position sensor on the throttle pedal. Regardless, the point is, even if it turns out to be a big deal, we can easily drop it, and nothing else would be affected. It wouldn't be on any kind of critical path. Just an added module.
I will try a few things with the setup I will borrow when I get back to Boston next week and let you guys know.
All, we still need one or two more people to finance this project by the way...  |
Obviously I do feel strongly about it, otherwise I wouldn't post my opinion. I am not lecturing nor being hot headed. I would be more than happy to cool down if you pointed out how I am being not cool! Seriously.
Again THE central question is this: How do we obtain quality and accurate measurements of shift times and shift lags with minimal effort and minimum cost? In order to be good stewards of donated money you have to keep focused and as I said I very much believe the throttle position thing is an enormous distraction. I do not believe I have exaggerated the added complexity, difficulty, cost nor safety issues with adding a throttle position sensor. Furthermore, you really have to ask the question - what will it tell you? Will you monitor it while driving to standardize tests? Will you try a much more complex test plan to make every possible combination of throttle, rpm, Drivelogic mode, etc. then determine some dependencies or algorithm? We already know the basic answers about throttle position and its effect on shift lag! However, the issue is somewhat obfuscated by rpm. Is it just throttle position that provides a shorter lag or is it just rpm or some combination? Is our goal to determine this? I don't think so, not at all. Perhaps we should add another channel for rpm... perhaps one for brake pressure, fuel mixture, etc. ... I know, I know, a bit of argument ad absurdum but my point is valid.
I don't think this is at all what "I" want to measure. I said lets measure shift times. Later on during "thinking out load" I revisited the idea that lag is a key component of TOTAL shift time and most seemed to agree with that. Now we have drifted off to throttle position. If you can clearly define why we would want to do it, in what way it would shape a test plan and how it will further the knowledge about shift times I will certainly listen.
P.S. taping a wooden block below the gas pedal is completely safe, accurate and cheap.
P.S.S. Thanks for the vote of confidence footie. I'm sure you could organize the equipment and testing much better than me. I have been crystal clear about what kinds of results you can expect and have listed those previously. You can stop with the insults such as "pigheaded" when you sir seem to not be able to read.