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Originally Posted by swamp2
...What is the difference between the human actuation required to shift an automated manual vs. a traditional manual with a cluch pedal? In one you pull a paddle, in the other you push a foot lever (clutch) and then push or pull a hand lever (gear shift lever). Either way the process is IN ESSENCE, FOR BOTH TRANSMISSIONS, a manual process (literally manual meaning with the hand). It seems to be nothing more than pride and you curmudgeonly attitude that drives you to separate these two forms of a manual transmission. There is no reason to let a computer and some hydraulics intimidate you. A dual clutch, despite these systems is more like a manual inside and out, even in your precious "cockpit centric" point of view. One lever has replaced two levers. Wow what a difference. I mean its huge...
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Not sure even now what your point is, other than to rant, of course. You're showing a tinge of OCD on the topic.
Again, and as others have pointed out to you, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...
Two pedals. It shifts itself or lets you shift it. Just like the 1941 Oldsmobile.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2
Why resist clarity in communication? Despite recent advances in modern automatic transmissions there is a very strong and deserved stigma associated with them. Traditionally they have been a poor choice for road course enthusiasts/racers. You can make that your personal mission to change that stigma and I'd only say good luck. Alternatively to indicate the immense differences inside the units (DCT vs. traditional automatics), the real world FEEL and OPERATIONAL differences, as well as something that describes the precious number of levers in the user interface, there is a logical choice - call an apple an apple. Automated manual or dual clutch are the better terms, period. You seem to continue to reject these to sort of minimize these products and lump them into a class with a ton of stigma. It has nothing to do with authority, it is about correct and effective terminology which under most circumstances you seem to care about very much.
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AHA! And here it is! It's the STIGMA that drives you!
Wow. If your ego is that brittle...
For me, there is no stigma attached to automatics, and in fact, it's clear that for most uses, they're better performers than sticks - including the DCT and PDK autos, of course. I've been interested in the development and application of automatics ever since Jim Hall beat up on everybody in Can Am racing in his two speed (Powerglide) Chaparral more than forty years ago.
Now, automatics (of various technologies) have come of age, and they'll continue to improve. Sticks won't.
I personally enjoy shifting, but sooner or later...
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2
I'm not sure what you drove. I've never, even 2 software updates prior, had any smoothness issues whatsoever. I've also never had and take off issues whatsoever.
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So what. I did - and there appear to be persistent (though fairly minor) problems at low speeds. "Clunky" is a word used fairly often in this forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2
I've never had problems where the system could not pick a gear. There have been two major M-DCT problems both addressed to about a 90%+ level or better (100% for sure for the first). One is a delay between upshifts done manually and the actual shift. The other is the much discussed lag, which although absolutely DCT related, was most likely a throttle control issue.
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Whatever. It persists. From my point of view, this is a BMW problem, rather than an indictment of the technology, as the VAG folks never had problems as deep or as long.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2
The transmission behaves wonderfully at either a granny pace or a race pace.
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Yours does. Others don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2
...Of course dual clutch units only continue to get better, higher torque capacities, improved software, lower parasitic losses, etc.
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Agreed