[swamp2]

Originally Posted by alms211

You people with these 'Ring times are just laughable. Do you really think that anybody on these forums (save for perhaps a Leh Keen) is really going to drive a car to the extent they can tell a 6 second difference on a 13 mile course? Hell, I'd bet 90+% of the people on these forums that have "performance" cars NEVER see a track. Whats the big damn deal of 6 seconds over an 8 minute/13 mile span of road? Do you really think ANYBODY here arguing these points can "make that much of a difference"? It really is laughable because it all comes down to magazine racing.

These is absolutely no problem debating CARS vs. debating DRIVERS (or even some combination thereof). They are uncoupled debates and the discussion here is about the cars themselves. Even if I can't get my car around the Ring in under 10 minutes doesn't mean I can't be quite keenly interested in how fast Walter, Sabine or Horst or some other very good driver might be able to do it.

Originally Posted by MVF4Rrider

There isn't 6 seconds between those drivers. Stop kidding yourself.

These two drivers have shown 5 seconds of differnce for the 997 Turbo and as little as 0-1 seconds of difference for other P cars. Bottom line still is that with different drivers on different days you CAN NOT make the comparison. Even with identical drivers on different days you will probably have 5 seconds of variation due to wind, temperature and tire condition. You can not compare apples to oranges.

Originally Posted by MVF4Rrider

Besides, that 997S was without Sport Chrono but did have PASM. Sport Chrono makes an appreciable power difference across the rev range, although peak is the same. But before we split hairs all day, the bottom line is the M3 would be faster on the straights whereas the 997S will be quicker cornering and under braking, and coming out of corners. Keep in mind also this car was around when BMW still had 2 model years of production remaining on the E46 M3. BTW, the power package '08 997S .1 posted a 7:50, same as the '09 997S .2. Just shows what 30 more hp will do. A '05~'08 997S + IDP plenum ($900) = 383 hp. What holds back the .1 is the intake efficiency. Easily remedied.

Wow talk about splitting hairs. Let's talk about a tuned M3 as well just to throw that into the mix . The bottom line is that the E92 M3 has a substantially better power to weight ratio than the 08 997 and under an apples to apples comparison on most fast tracks such as the N'Ring it WILL be faster. The rest of your words above are nothing more than a distraction.