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Originally Posted by homerunball
Ok, I'll say you are an idiot as well. It is very apparant that you do not have a grasp of the automotive industry. You have been reading some magazines and spent some time in Wiki and seem to act like you know what "soul" is from a car. If you are such a "soul" searching purist, did you just discover BMW from E92? Try driving a E36 M or an E30, that is what "soul" is. I guess you don't know what "over built" means either huh? You must be one of those people who talk a lot but don't have anything to back it up. Stop reading those magazines and open your eyes.
Engineering, technology and ingenuity is public domain; it is not proprietary to any specific make of vehicles. It is what the manufacturer chooses to make. Do you think BMW engineers are locked up in some secret basement?
How can anyone be so naive to think that other auto makers do not know how to make the same thing. Do you know how easy that is to do??? Do you know what reverse engineering is, and that every company does it, and that they choose what to copy and what not to based on economic sense. You said you are well aware of market and economics; this is just basic son.
You have nothing to say but that I am on some pre-determined course and resort to calling me names. Every car maker is capable of building a supercar, and the sooner you accept that fact, the sooner you stop looking like a dumbass.
Call me a fanboy, I don't care, I am, but I know facts from opinion. I've personally worked with engineers from Toyota, BMW, D-C, as well as other trade vehicles to know what I am talking about. I'm not wrapped up in anything, just telling the facts. I welcome you to present some facts to support your idiotic claims.
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Nope Pretty Sure you've got your own little set of assumptions you are going to cling to. You're the guy throwing out "fanboy" after having obviously missed the gist of what I was driving at...
No the E92 isn't my introduction to BMW and the addictive "feel" that I speak of. I have previously driven an E36 (Not Mine) an E46 M3 (a few hundred miles) and a 540i for a few months... Yes the E92 is soft by comparison to EVERY 3-series before it, but the seat of the Pants and steering wheel FEEL is there is abundance, I am willing to bet that when I eliminate the RFTs that the steering feel will also sharpen up some.
Pretty sure I hadn't made any Statements presenting myself as a subject matter expert, You keep banging a FACT WarDrum what is it you need me to do, dig into the Road & Track Library, record some television commercials for you? Present some scans of ads, and reviews? My point is valid. BMW is the Target, has been for decades and other manufacturers take great pains to compare whatever the hell they are building to BMW... As I mentioned NOT all but each has their one or two models... "Like BMW" "as found on the BMW..." "similar to the BMWXXX for Less". On and on.
Not sitting here at work getting all misty eyed and romantic about BMW. BUT, there is a difference, and I think you know exactly what I am talking about. It is a "feel" a "Soul" certain cars have, call it feedback, or balance, or hell maybe it's the little bit of vibration in the steering wheel I dunno. I do know that it doesn't take some deep seeded Purist fanaticism to appreciate the "feel" or whatever you want to call it that BMWs have that is lacking in most every other car out there, especially those built to a tighter price point than BMW.
You seem to have the answers, why don't you tell me where the feel is? 350z Nope, Maxima Nope, G35 Nope, Rx-8 CLOSE, C6 Nope, CTS-V not here either... Why don't these cars have the feel, the sense of control that I am talking about? It's not a measure of performance, there are plenty of cars that are faster, with higher lateral grip, or faster slalom times that just don't have the feedback the FEEL that the BMW does. At least not that I found over the last couple of years.
It's subjective sure, but when I can "feel" the Left rear tire start to slip a bit in a freaking 540i through the seat of my pants and hands? This means something, it's addicting and it's why I have an E92.
Where are the cars that provide the type of feedback I am speaking of? In a purely 1+1=2 kind of world sure it's irrelevant, you can work on suspension geometry all day and not get it... It's a pity that you do not understand what it is I am talking about. You claim to be speaking of FACTS, where are they? Where are the hoards of inexpensive or even competitively priced cars with the "Feel" and handling balance of a BMW?
In the end I took offense to the
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We really gotta stop this mindless BMW fanboy rants and get real.
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This statement was intentionally offensive. The implication being that my entire POV is skewed because I am a mindless Roundel Worshiper. I may be an asshole, but I am not a Fanboy and my posts and POV bear this out.
Oh and FWIW I believe the 335's 6-speed is a German made unit...