[OC3]

Originally Posted by Car54

That was a long post!

If you're modifying your driving to trick the computer, you're doing it wrong. If the MDM is interfereing, you're overdriving. Maybe not in terms of track driving, but street driving. Your goal should be able to learn throttle modulation and steering input (or unwinding) because that's what you need to do to keep the car on the track....not because you need to keep MDM happy.

Well, I think modifying one's driving with respect to a particular car and that car's components is something we all do. Who drives a GT-R and a Corvette the same way on tracks? So, arguably, why is it wrong when that's done with respect to MDM?

Modern cars like M3, in comparison to say... a '67 Mustang, can be construed as the entire M3 being sort of like MDM.

Originally Posted by Car54

That last long slide had more to do with hopping the curb than traction control.

Not true. If you raise the volume and listen for the engine sound, you'll see that the engine was floored after I already went over the berm.

Originally Posted by Car54

If you are hopping things...you need to get your steering done ahead of time, and unwind for the "lightness" in the suspension. Your car and its gizmos have allowed you to go faster than your car control is ready for. Just get some more seat time going slower with DSC off.

I do tend to go over berms (but, not at very high speed corners), and I do get my steering done ahead of time. I turn in early, and as I'm over the berms, I'm counter-steering/unwinding, and then land all 4 wheels.

As for gizmos allowing me to go faster, I'll agree. But, again, w/ modern cars like M3, the entire car is a "gizmo." You think people who get 1:55 at Buttonwillow CW13 can do the same with a (for example) '68 Mercury Cougar? Look how much gizmos there are in these modern sports GT cars.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I think you post proves the point that driving with MDM at the track generaly develops bad driving habits .

However, if you just want to have fun out there and be safe, MDM is perfectly OK .

Yeah, I see many people of that opinion. In any case, so? Do people with "good" driving habits get a prize and a pat on the back? And, how "really good" are the driving habits of HPDE DSC-off M3 drivers in general? As a direct result of going DSC off, and honing their skills, are they now ready to compete in SCCA or DTM series? Hmmm?

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I am also not sure about this statement. To go faster, there usually is a lot to be gained between the seat and the steering wheel before any other mods are required .

Well, what I said was not an absolute statement. Also, "quickly" is the operative word there. Sure, given time, one can improve driving skills so that you can be very fast without needing additional/better equipments. But, how long does that take? Remember, we're only occasional/weekend hobbyists. We can't be dedicating 60 hours a week on this.

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In any case, I don't mean to come out sounding like I'm defending MDM or anything like that. It's just that, these discussions & points about MDM vs DSC off, etc, while I understand and generally agree with all things said, I just am not 100% convinced given the context that most of us are in.