Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90
Subaru is famous for it's turbo's as much as for it's AWD.
The boxer turbo is a sweet piece, and it will be really sweet powering a BRZ/FRS.
I'll wager that the FRS/BRZ won't get sales as high as they will be once the turbo models come out.
Enthusiast drivers love lightweight great handling cars, but many also want power along with that. Turbo's have the ability to keep weight down while giving more power.
I always read about people who want small lightweight cars that handle well even though they don't have a lot of power.
Well, if that were true, then why did Mazda have to stop selling the RX8?
Why are those drivers not driving Miata's, instead of driving turbo engined BMW's?
Heck, if one wants a good handling NA engine powered RWD, Ford has been selling Mustangs for quite some time.
YES they DO handle well even with the archaic rear end.
There's also Nissan Z cars, normally aspirated, RWD, and they handle quite well. The Nismo 350Z was quite impressive in handling.
What people say they want, and what they actually buy are not the same.
Thus, people really need to think about what they think they're thinking about and be honest with themselves, and then hopefully they can be honest with others. 
I LOVE turbo's. I also love nicely done NA engines.
I wish the new 3 series were lighter and smaller and didn't laden with all the freakin buttons and gadgets it has.
But, I still love how it drives, which is just like a BMW.
So, I ordered one. 335i Msport. Honest. 
I too want to see a 1/2 series sedan. 4 doors is cool for a bit extra space.
The 3 has hit the limit in size, well, it may have gone a bit past it.
At least the F30 335i is a bit lighter than the slightly smaller E90. |
There's no question that the overall market for smaller, lighter, NA sports cars is small regardless of price point. Even if everyone who said they wanted one bought one, the numbers aren't big. So for big auto companies who just want to get bigger every year and want to make use of endless platform sharing for cost efficiency, the business case is a tough sell. The existing cars in this space, many of which you mentioned, are either slicing up the existing pie or missing the mark IMO.
The RX-8, for example, is interesting, but the styling is controversial and the rotary engine represents too much compromise (and perhaps "weirdness") for all but the die-hard fans. Endless tales of poor fuel efficiency, insatiable oil consumption and quality issues helped keep the RX-8 a niche car.
The Mustang is a great value, but it's not a proper sports car in the classic sense because of its size and weight. It sells well, of course, and it's improving by leaps and bounds, but it doesn't appeal to many people who are really looking for a cut rate Porsche. The next chassis looks promising, however.
The Miata is a natural performer, but it also requires a fair bit of compromise. The interior is small and limited to 2 seats, the storage space is minimal and most reviews say it makes a fine 2nd car but it's not great for longer drives. The design is also getting a bit long in tooth.
The 370Z is darned close, though I hear it's a bit brutish for daily driving. It's also limited by being a 2 seater and the styling is also controversial IMO. I don't have a good sense for how well it sells.
The Hyundai Genesis Coupe has come from nowhere to establish a role in the market, but I think it needs another generation of development to really shine. Still, it's impressive given the fact that Hyundai has basically no performance pedigree.
This is why I find the FR-S / BRZ so interesting. Like the Miata when it first came out, I think it will make its own market, albeit a small market. I don't see the FR-S / BRZ stealing lots of sales so much as making sales from people who have been waiting for such a thing to return to the market. But as you noted, those numbers will likely dry up in a few years, so the car will inevitably add turbo and likely convertible variants. Of course, I'd still prefer a tuned BRZ edition with 225 of NA power
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