[tony20009]

Originally Posted by Cairo Kid

I agree that Cartier is jewelry (not a timepiece) and that there is a difference. You're buying something that looks nice and has a pedigree (my Santos is nice but doesn't tell the best time). If I had the budget, there are other watches I would rather add to my collection such as Bovet, A Lange & Sohne, Patek Philipe. If I wanted other jewellry inspired watches, I would look at Faberge. Good hunting!

Earlier someone mentioned disliking Cartier because they used ETA movements. First off, I want to be clear that although I don't currently buy watches with ETA movements, there's nothing wrong with them, especially the 2892 and 2824. Also, unless one either has a lot of money to spend or is content with Seiko, Citizen and/or unknown brands, finding a manufacture watch, which is what I think is your point re: Patek et al, is not an easy thing to do.

That said, most of Cartier's watches use movements from someone else. The Tank for example uses a Piaget movement and as goes watchmaking, Piaget is right up there with Patek, A.L. & Sonne and others, so there's absolutely no basis for poo-pooing Piaget's products. Admittedly, the price would be justified were the movement actually inside a watch bearing the Piaget name, but then ~$20K is the price of entry for a Piaget, so I can see why folks buy Cartier instead. (IWC also use a Piaget movement in at least one of their watches.) It's also worth noting that the Calibre de Cartier watches carry in-house movements. Unfortunately, the most appealing (IMO) of those watches is also the most expensive, starting at a hair shy of ~$50K.

It's also worth noting that when one sells watches costing $15K+ and is a privately held organization, finding good, reliable ways to boost revenues can be tough to do. And if one is a high end brand, such as Cartier or Tiffany, wanting to sell watches it's hardly a good idea to start out by investing the capital to start up an in-house movement production capability. As a result, there's a win-win to be had for makers of truly fine innards, like Piaget, to quietly sell their movements to others.

Originally Posted by SpaceGhost

Respectable is a relative term. If you are looking to impress people, that will depend on the circles you run in. In many circles, a Rolex Daytona is as humdrum as a Timex digital while in others it is the stuff of dreams. There are so many strata of watch out there it is hard to answer this question.
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If I want to impress them, I will have to rely on my personality. :-)
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Red Text:
There really aren't many circles in which a Daytona is humdrum. There may be a few levels of society that feel that way, but they'd be hard to encounter, and nobody in those circles would be so tasteless and rude as to snub someone over their Daytona. FWIW, as driving watches go, the Daytona is the benchmark. So, if one buys one because one actually has an ongoing need for the functionality, it's pretty hard to be looked down at.

On the other hand, if one buys a Daytona, or any other mainstream, regularly produced watch, for bragging rights, one probably should not bother. Bragging rights in the world of horology might be had via a limited edition watch from the very top makers, but even that will only begin to scratch the surface, better to look at having something made for expressly for oneself by a man/woman who makes watches such as A.L. Breguet did for his clients.

Denis Flageollet, Peter Marin, Roger Smith, and others are good folks to enjoin for such a thing. If you would prefer to go with a little know maker, try Keaton Myrick in Oregon or RGM in PA, the latter being able to provide you with an in-house movement as well as custom everything else. Both will almost certainly run you less green than will the guys I mentioned earlier.

I think too its fair to say that Rolex is not a pinnacle maker of fine watches, but what they make -- all of it that's sold under the Rolex brand -- is of sufficiently high quality, and the brand so dominant in the high-end (in terms of quality and craftsmanship and thoughtfulness of design), that it is the bar by which all others are measured: a watch/brand is either above, below or on par with a Rolex. Moreover, to say another high-end watch brand/product on par with Rolex is tantamount to damning it with faint praise.

One knows this is so because folks talk about their XYZ watch, Omega being the most common, that is similar to a corresponding Rolex, they will be certain to point out that it's as good as a Rolex. The watch may very well be as good as a Rolex, in the case of Omega's co-axial movement, it's actually performance wise exactly that, and in terms of the finishing of the movement, it's better. Nonetheless, there's no shortage of Omega owners who'll tell you their watch, a Seamaster perhaps, is as good or better than a Submariner. In contrast, no Rolex owner is even going to make the comparison or even bring up the matter. At best, they'll just grant equivalence and move on to new topics.

Lastly, regarding Rolex, I have plenty of respect for the watches and the brand, and it's certainly deserved in several ways. That Rolex is a marketing master cannot be denied. It's easily the most recognized high-end brand around and has tons of goodwill (accounting sense) as a result. They do indeed make a fine watch. All that aside, what I think of a person wearing one rarely has much to do with their watch. On the few occasions it does, it's largely because I wonder why in God's name is that person wearing a $15K Rolex sport watch with a tux? It would seem to me that if one has $15K to spend on a Rolex, one also can find $50 to buy a suitably thin, elegant dress watch to wear at formal events. It is cases like that that I then begin to wonder if the person is a self-possessed, status seeking, insecure poseur.

Green Text:
I wish more folks thought as you do. I cannot think of one time in my entire life where someone was party to something positive as a result of the brand of watch they wore, the car they drove, or the neighborhood/house in which they lived. I have no difficulty recalling hundreds of occasions where someone got to participate in something because of their wit, intelligence, achievements, or even their God given good looks and other talents.

Originally Posted by ny330xi

...Also, I would say that if you're not adverse to a pre-owned watch, you'll really maximize your return by buying a well cared for watch from a reputable member of a forum like WUS.

I think pre-owned watches, like pre-owned cars can be a very good way to go, especially when seeking an pricey piece. In addition to finding a reputable, private party seller, which can be quite difficult and won't yield one any sort of guarantees or warranties, I suggest checking out watch outfits that sell used products. One more or less local to me and who are excellent in all regards is The Little Treasury in Gambrills, MD (http://littletreasury.com/store/swis...d-watches.html) I would, however, suggest that if you are buying used watches, make sure you know everything there is to know about the watch in question. This is the realm of watch buying where it's insanely easy to get taken. There are such good fakes being made these days that it takes a very, very keen eye to tell them apart. Caveat emptor.

I have a friend who's also into watches. Occasionally he'll buy a high end watch and then search high and low for a fake version of it. Then when he's hosting several of us, his "watchie" friends for something at his home, he'll show us both watches and ask us to choose the fake. In some cases, the watches he's displaying are even models one or more of us actually own. Sometimes one or two of us guesses correctly. On one occasion we even fooled him. He stepped away to take a call and we swapped the watches placement. When he told us we guessed right, we said, "Realy," and asked him how he could tell. His answer: because he know which one he sat closest to the end of the table. Then we came clean with our little prank. I won't disclose what brand the watch was, but to say it is one unquestionably above Rolex in the hierarchy of brands. FWIW, Rolex is among the easier brands for which identifying fakes is easier. It's insanely hard, without opening the case or scratching the metal/crystal to tell, and that's especially so if the authentic version doesn't have a clear caseback. This is especially true for fakes made and bought in the PRC where there is absolutely nobody to enforce patent and trademark ownership by non-Chinese companies.


Watchuseek (WUS) will have more moderate and lower price offerings, in general, but certainly all price ranges are represented. Timezone is a bit more high-end, but again, all prices will be represented.

All the best to all.

PS
Watchuseek has a huge section of its forum dedicated to affordable watches (http://forums.watchuseek.com/f71/). It's a great place to explore and learn. You'll find far more "scoop" that's worth finding there than you will here. Timezone is a slightly better forum for folks seeking stuff on the higher end, but the forum design is cumbersome to say the least.

Below are some additional affordable watch options to get you started.

• RGM - They are in Pennsylvania. They have two in-house movements and also offer an assortment of styles featuring ETA movements.
• Towson Watch Company - Nifty styles in some cases, very Breguet-esque in others. ETA 2824 movements.
• Orient - I've heard of them more than I know about them.
• Casio - G-Shock is notable in the main for all the features and durability that's offered in a very, very affordable watch.
• Sinn - The U12 is a interesting looking watches, but of greater import is their innovative technology set. I can't being to spell or recall all the silly names they have for it, but check it out: http://www.watchbuys.com/store/pc/Si...logies-d76.htm
• Deep Blue - if you need a watch you can see in the dark and Ball is too pricey, look no further. These folks make divers watches for serious divers, rather than for folks whose sole diving event consists, at best, of jumping off the board overhanging their swimming pool. $1K will get you their top end product right now. ETA 2824 movements. Lots of fun face colors and the glow in the dark, tritium dials and markers are simply a joy to behold. All that plus a very handsome looking watch that closely resembles a Rolex Sub. As their watches list at $2K but are on sale right now, I'd say this may well be the best bargain I've come across lately.
• Muhle - Another company from Glashutte, the center of German watchmaking. Excellent products and very sane prices (starting at ~$1.5K) and a broad assortment of styles. They used modified out-of-house movements from Selitta.
• Luminox - another company that is in the nighttime visibility niche.
• Hager - $500 truly military watch (yes there are other true military watches). Two styles, both being more or less divers, great glow in the dark and low light reflectivity, and one is matte black stainless steel. Considering the price point, it's well worth a look. Their SERE watch was made for a US paramilitary unit, but they are offering the left over ones to the public. It is a numbered, limited edition watch. (http://www.hagerwatches.com/sitemap/page16/)
  
  If you feel like investing (and I don't mean by buying a watch) in a small company, they are seeking investors ($140K is I believe the sum I heard they need) to initiate manufacturing watches. They are in Hagerstown, MD, which is about 70 miles northwest of DC.
• Ball - another credible watchmaker. ETA movements. Oldest (that I know of) American owned watchmaker, though the watches are made in Switzerland. (Prices start ~$1500) They also use tritium to illuminate the watch, but if a dive watch is the desired style, I'd still go with Deep Blue.
• Smiths - This is the brand of watch that Hillary actually wore on Everest. The much touted Rolex was merely carried there.