Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxL
Not to criticise Ti-Jean's driving, but on that video Euro MDM interfered in situations that were suboptimal from the standpoint of driving fast. He was adding throttle while cornering on the limit without unwinding sufficiently. MDM masked that behavior a bit but not completely. Actually, even with MDM he needed to correct more than most drivers do when putting down a smooth fast lap. That makes me think that Euro MDM will not necessarily make a smooth driver slower, but it will mask mistakes some degree.
I datalogged runs with MDM, Euro MDM, and all-off at the same track (Mosport), and had some observations:
1. MDM does not adapt completely to change in tire diameters, so those running square set ups or any other set ups deviating from stock proportions may see it being much more intrusive.
2. MDM is much more lenient at lower speed and more strict at higher speeds. With euro MDM I can get 4-wheel drift through turn 5 (slow hairpin) and lay two black strips on exit. It let's rotate the car with throttle and gives me identical exit speed as all off mode when I drive it correctly. If I make a mistake, that's where things are different - a little too much throttle with MDM is invisible and the exit speed is still just as high, while with all off, it's a bit lower because of wheelspin. So with a small mistake MDM is faster but you may not know you made a mistake. With lot too much throttle MDM cuts engine power and does not give it back for a bit, completely messing up rotation and acceleration out of the corner - with all off, it's much easier/quicker to just back off the throttle and proceed normally.
At high speeds MDM is fairly strict - I can feel it in entrance to turn 8 when I trailbrake so late the rear tries to come around a bit (not a good idea at 100MPH+ anyway). With loud track pads I could actually hear it changing the tune of brake squeal.
3. Euro MDM in most cases allows slip angles that are higher than optimal slip angles of tires (at least at relatively low speed). So unless the track is very tight (e.g., autocross), in most conditions it should not make a good driver slower.
4. My best laps with Euro MDM and all off on Mosport are within 0.5 seconds, and consistency is about the same in both cases, but that's tough to tell because of traffic and stuff. Regular MDM was slower, and no MDM (just normal traction control) was MUCH MUCH slower (over 2 secs on the lap).
Anyway, back to the topic - I'd recommend MDM (Euro MDM if you can) until you 1) learn the line to the point that you no longer have WTF moments; 2) know how to control slide or spin (skidpad exercises). After that, it's a trade-off between risk and learning/enjoyment (MDM reduces risk but also reduces learning and potentially fun), and it's entirely up to you to decide. in some cases it may be worth it, in some not. I am fairly experienced but I do use Euro MDM when I come to a new track or want to try a different line just in case.
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I don't know if you read all of my posts in this thread, but we are mostly saying the same thing
.
I cannot comment on Euro MDM as I don't have it yet (I should be getting it coded in a few weeks
). However, I really don't like using NA MDM on a dry track. This is probably amplified due to my square tire set-up, but I find it way too intrusive. It does not allow much throttle steer. If you want to do light correction with lift throttle to bring you back on line, MDM applies the front brake to prevent the rotation and slows you down, so you are now going slower but still pointing in the wrong direction
. I am curious about trying out Euro MDM this summer.
Learning to drive without the stability systems does not mean never using them again. The first few laps of the day, even on a familiar track, I run with MDM on. I want to explore the track conditions first before I give up the safety net. Further, the M3, due to the M-differential, can be very treacherous in the wet. So I mostly keep MDM on in wet conditions, especially if there is accumulation on the track.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976
The longer you keep the nannies on...the longer it will take to break the habits. All the while you are picking up speed. So the longer you wait...the higher the stakes unless you can really dial it back. Let's all be honest...how long will dial it back mode last after you point that first Miata by?
For the record...when I say its easy to trail brake, throttle steer, slide, drift, and rotate the car that's relative to other cars. If you've never done it before...don't start trying it at speed.
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Could not agree more
. The longer one waits to turn off the aids, the bigger the risk when one does.