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Originally Posted by shift@red

OK, loaded 1M is going to be 55K OTD. You can buy a new cayman S for ~65K,

But you're comparing a loaded car vs. a base car - standard equipment is at least as good in the 1M as in the Cayman. So option for option, we are talking in fact about at minimum $20k difference in price.

and even then, you can buy a used cayman S for in the 40s. Not even close to a 25K difference new vs new.

But what's the point of comparing a used car with a new one? It makes no sense whatsoever. Here's an example: If I wanted a razor sharp track car for $45k or less, I'd buy a nice used E46 M3 (they can be had for $15k-18k with one owner) and then throw a Moton suspension at it with some AP Racing brakes to match, wheels/tires and top it off with a supercharger, just for fun. Something like this would blow everything into the weeds except for a GT3, and retain the back seats.

I don't think you fully understand the main reason people buy BMW's - it's because at heart, they are useful daily cars. They mostly feature 4-5 seats, are comfortable (even the M versions) and yet posses a level of driver involvement or satisfaction that no other sedan has.

And guess what, they work pretty well even on a racetrack. Some better than others naturally, but they don't disgrace themselves.

So yes, we do need the back seats or yes, these are our daily drivers so we cannot take a bone rattling suspension. Or both.

For the record, I LIKE the 1M, but dont see a 55K entry level car being worth it.

For the record, as an entry level car it's a $45k proposition, not $55k. Entry level means no options.

Unless of course by entry level you mean the cheapest model in the range - that's where the Cayman comes in as well.

And lets not forget...you can be sure dealers will be asking 10K over sticker for them.

Please, stop. I get it, you are not a fan - but you aren't objective about this, not by a long shot. In every post you make you stack up the odds against the 1M (or any BMW for that matter) - if it's a question of price, you compare loaded BMW vs. bare bones Porsche. Or talk used Porsches. Or discover that no matter what else it's still not as sharp. Or like here, anticipate absurd dealer markups - guess what, not going to happen here in my area, besides which, I'll still get my Euro discount from my favorite BMW sales guy.

Best of all? Nobody here has driven the damn thing, so we're all just shooting BS, waiting for the time to pass.

Please, step up the level of maturity in your posts. It's okay if BMW comes up with a nice car, and we still like Porsches.