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      03-03-2011, 03:34 AM   #77
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Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Swamp, you're getting so worked up here that you are now replying to the same posts twice with two completely different replies. See? Take a deep breath, man.
I don't see that not even now. Perhaps I am delirious...

Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Swamp, come on, now you are resorting to mockery? You just cited your belief that there are no auto-only DCT's as support of using the term automanual. All I did here was enlighten you - and you want to mock that? Wow. Look, I respect you and what you bring to the forum, but I am going to have to echo what Bruce said earlier about your ego getting in the way here.

Honestly, I don't think its prudent to continue to the debate. We'll agree to disagree on this.
You entirely missed my point. First I did not claim that there are no auto only DCTs. If you re-read my comment I only said I was not aware of them. Then I was making fun of my own ignorance! Then (I thought humorously...) I excused myself for not being up to date on a car that most enthusiasts will have very little interest in. I appreciated your use of that car as evidence and I did a little reading about it. If you felt mocking it was 100% misinterpretation and I'm sorry you felt that way.

You can believe what you want about ego. My feelings come from my passion for the technology and my strong belief in choosing the best jargon based on the criteria I have listed. I can just as easily argue that for you and Bruce to put so much effort into the "tango" that it must also involve some significant ego on your behalf. Typically I won't resort to that and will continue a debate at its face value. I'm also fine agreeing to disagree. I'm just not sure I can bite my tongue fully when the term automatic is used. Some of this absolutely comes from by background in science and engineering, i.e. the focus on the details of what is inside. To me that counts enormously.

Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Same is true for any transmission with both an automatic and manual mode, as long as it does not automatically shift for you at redline in manual mode (which, as you know there are both DCT and planetary transmission that do and that do not). I know you know this to be true, so I am surprised that you continue to fixate on these properties only as they apply to DCT, and seem to carefully avoid associating any of your words with a modern planetary automatic transmission. It's like you are trying to pretend they don't exist or something.
I'm not sure how many more times I need to make my case. You can make yours and you have. I've agreed with you on some points. I just won't agree enough to change my opinion.

The traditional transmission names (auto/manual) due to historical norms have implications both on how each type of unit is designed, built and how it will feel and perform. There is also an implication on the user interface. I agree that modern transmissions both dual mode DCTs and modern paddle shifting autos (planetary autos specifically) blur some of these lines. However, to most accurately capture ALL aspects of these various criteria I believe either automated manual or dual clutch are superior terms over automatic for a dual clutch.

It is fairly clear that the source of the disagreement is that we each have different criteria. If we have different criteria we certainly won't come to an agreement.

Again, I'm fine to agree to disagree at this point.
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |