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      03-01-2011, 09:38 PM   #69
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Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Ah, then you sure are going to be surprised when you read up on the North American Ford Fiesta. Starting to see what I mean now?
No manual mode perhaps? I'm not surpised at all - my ignorance of the latest greatest does happen. Pardon my title of "enthusiast" when I have not kept up on the latest Ford Fiesta However, to my credit, as soon as I heard about DCTs I knew they would eventually come in this form - no manual mode. Dual clutch still works but lacks some clarity. The most precise here would be automated dual clutch. And no that does not fully capture a DCT with manual modes.

Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I disagree. There's another more practical reason to use the term automatic though, like I said in my last post. And that is, to do what you suggest - to coin a new term - means that we now have call nearly every single transmission manufactured today that isn't a true manual an "automanual" or "automated manual" or whatever the term du jour is.
I obviously believe that what is inside the unit is nearly as important as how many or where the operating levers are located. An automatic transmission even the AMG MCT with buttons or paddles as opposed to a lever and button on the transmission tunnel are automatic transmissions. The removal of the torque converter in the MCT for take offs does not change 95% of everything else inside the box, complex bands and hydraulics, planetary gears and a fluid pump to control the hydraulics.

It is the engineering AND the interface which define a trasmission.

From (not the most authoritative web site but a good one still..), How Stuff Works,
"The key difference between a manual and an automatic transmission is that the manual transmission locks and unlocks different sets of gears to the output shaft to achieve the various gear ratios, while in an automatic transmission, the same set of gears produces all of the different gear ratios."
Not my words just another source and perspective.

Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
But modern torque-converter style transmissions use computers to shift now too. So by that same measure, these are semi-automatic transmissions as well.
Nope, replacing the human with a computer and hydraulics is not enough to change the name of the unit. It is the two clutches and essentially two manual transmissions in parallel that is the huge worthwhile innovation of a DCT to call it something different. DCT or automated manual.
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |