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      01-31-2007, 02:22 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iguy View Post
Yes, I am willing to accept the consequences of defeat. Why you ask? You yourself mentioned that intel was incorrect, so why continue bashing that country when we were wrong in the first place? We were wrong , do whats right and pull out, its that simple. If there was a clear cut plan to win , well hell I would be willing to look at that, but there isn't, and realistically, there will NEVER BE A WINNING TACTIC.
My comment was regarding losing the overall War on Terror (a name I disagree with but the one we seem to be stuck with) rather than simply the current battle in that war in Iraq but lets look at what would happen if we pull out now. It is highly probable that Iraq would fracture into three pieces; a Kurdish state in the north, a radical Sunni state in the west, a fundamentalist Shi'ite state in the south, and a bloodbath in Baghdad. What would the consequences of each of these new entities be for the West?

The Kurds would be nominally pro-Western but an independent Kurdistan would pose problems for our NATO ally, Turkey. If the Kurds proved themselves unwilling or unable to deal with the Turkish Kurds who attach Turkey and take refuge across the border, Turkey may feel it necessary to deal with the problem themselves and we have a war between this new Kurdistan and Turkey. There would also be clashes between the Kurds and the Sunni Arabs over control of the Kirkuk oilfields.

The Sunni state in the western desert bordering Syria and Saudi Arabia would be dominated by radical Wahabist Sunnis similar to the Taliban and sympathetic to 'al Qaeda. This regime may well allow 'al Qaeda the safe haven the Taliban did to recruit and train their members. It would also pose a great danger to the Saudi regime which despite all its flaws is pro-western and keeps the oil flowing.

The Shi'ite state in the south would most likely be an Iranian puppet and would greatly enhance Iranian prestige and power in the region as well as increase Iran's power in the oil market as they would control the southern Iraqi oil production as well as their own.

The situation in Baghdad would be a nightmare that would make Darfur or Srebrenica look mild by comparison as this religiously diverse city of 6 million people descends into anarchy and sectarian slaughter.

Quote:
Lets look at the consequences. Will there be another terrorist attack? HELL YEAH. If we stay , they will attack, if we leave they will attack. You cant fight a war on terror. The war on obesity sure didnt work. The war on poverty didnt work. I'm pretty sure the war on terror wont neither.
Do you really think the consequences of losing the overall war on terror would be limited to an occasional attack? Look at what the Islamists/Islamofacsists (pick a name) have been able to accomplish without an outright victory. Do you value freedom of speech? Freedom of expression? Freedom of religion? Do you find it acceptable that newspaper editors are threatened with death because they publish cartoons that someone is offended by? Do you find it acceptable that a film maker is murdered because he made a film that exposed how woman are treated in Islam? This is a clash of civilizations and I believe Western civilization and values are worth fighting for.

Quote:
Look, I give you credit for standing with the minority, and I appreciate your views. You realize that sooner or later that this war will end with a pull out, democracy wants this. I see your point, hey, if I screwed around with my neighbours wife, and I know the husband is gonna kill me, I'd get to him first.
Its not right......but I'm still alive.
The only reason the war will end with a pull out is if we lose the will to fight it. Right now we have about two years before that will happen. I pray we can stabilize the situation in Iraq in those two years because the consequences of failure are unacceptable.
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