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      12-23-2009, 11:07 PM   #23
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Finnegan's Avatar

Drives: Z4M/. Z3M, E36/46 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Teaching the dog to slalom

iTrader: (21)

Originally Posted by infamxkris View Post
your info has been amazing finn.. i didnt realize all the things that can alter this deal. well like i said they had this car listed at 60k and even though 55k isnt a set price he did say i can offer that as an offer. I asked if low 50s was doable. and he said there is no way this car is being moved for that amount. It didnt even sound like 55k was going to get me the car... with this said if its anywhere around 55-57k should i just walk on this deal or just bite as this is the ONLY used m3 around me... once again thank you for the wonderful info!
You're most welcome.

I can't answer the "should i just walk on this deal or just bite as this is the ONLY used m3 around me" question. That's really up to you. Assume they paid 49K for the car, 1.5K for CPO, 56K gets them just over 10% on the deal. Again, a fair profit is up for debate. But again, if that's original rubber the rear tires should be pretty well done at this point and that's 1K I'd ask them to knock off the price. And yes, it's fair and you should bring that up along with the small remaining life on the front tires.

Warning: Long-winded story and opinion/advice follows!

I will say that in a couple of recent deals I've made I got the "talk to my manager", "we're losing money on the deal", "we can't sell it for that" blah blah blah. I said, my wife and I ran the numbers and here's what we can do. We researched it. If they say your numbers are crap you say "okay, but geez, my wife is a real PITA on stuff like this..." I told them this was a business deal for me as my wife gave me little leeway on what I could spend. Whenever my sales guy said "I have to talk to my manager" and came back with a number I would say "I don't know, I need to talk to my manager--you know--my wife!" and excused myself, went outside, and actually called my wife. She was in on the plan--just in case I got all caught up she was there to ground me and pull me back down to Earth and insist that "we" agreed not to pay more than X. I'd come back and say "well, my wife says the the numbers are X, gee, I really like the car, but she's adamant that this isn't going to be some emotional thing and I'm required to get a reasonable deal". I was polite yet firm; and since it wasn't "me" saying no that defused them a bit from being pissed off with me. (Hee hee, that's usually the sales guy's tactic--he's your friend, the manager is the enemy, he's not trying to screw you over it's the manager, he's working on your behalf--all BS of course-they're all out to make as much as they can off you!) With this tactic, see, I'm a nice reasonable guy, but my wife isn't! I'm trying to work with you guys--but you know how it is!

Not having her there is person is the key--you keep her as the big bad on the other end of the phone. What if they want to talk to her? Tell them she doesn't want to talk to them and that's it. Then you sigh or something and look all depressed. No wife? No problem! Say it's your girlfriend, dad, whatever. You could even call your voicemail--it doesn't matter. (A real person who can keep you sane is a good idea IMO.)

At one point I was asked into the manager's office, and he showed me a bunch of numbers on his computer, "proving" they'd lose money on the deal with my offer. I just said "okay, your numbers say x and ours say y. Like I told Bob here, I really want the car but my wife know how it is. I want to work with you guys but I've called her twice now and I've got to get a reasonable deal. Guys, this is a business deal and it's not some emotional thing for us." Then you just don't say anything and leave them hanging. Let the silence ring for a minute or two if necessary, longer if needed. Maybe say "hmmm..." (Note: I didn't say his numbers were wrong or argue with him. I just said that we had different numbers; never argue, it's not a good idea.) At this point the pressure is on them. In the end I came up a bit on my numbers, but I was in the range I'd set as my target so all was well. Result: I walked away with a pretty darn good deal and we all had a good laugh at my (and my wife's) "expense". (Actually it wasn't at our expense in terms of $s!)

Now, this approach can certainly backfire. And if you're not good at BSing it's not going to work. Bottom line with any approach is that you must be prepared to stick to your guns and walk out without a car. You may not get the M3. But, IMO unless you're willing to do that you're going to lose money. They count on you wanting it. That's the game. So,my advice remains "know your numbers, know what you are willing to pay max, start below that, and allow them to come up to that number but not beyond". Don't use what they're "asking" or "might offer" as the starting point in the negotiation. Use your numbers!

One other thing: on a recent trade I saw where the car I traded in was listed at 10K over what they actually paid me on the trade. Using that rule of thumb if they're asking 60K the real cost, with CPO, is around 50K. 10% profit is 55K; a whopping 20% profit if someone were to pay 60K!....

Happy hunting!

Last edited by Finnegan; 12-23-2009 at 11:29 PM.