Thread: Religion
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      10-23-2009, 08:59 AM   #59
nostrum09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MP0WER View Post
Most of us here have had this conversation with carve and it gets rather exhausting. As a debate starts up he will typically make false claims that God said this or God said that. Or simply quote a verse from the bible that is completely out of context.

What i find interesting about these threads is that more often than not, the "religious" people bow out of the conversation because we have better things to do than vehemently oppose atheists. However the atheists, who claim we are imposing our views on them, are willing to spend countless hours posting about their "non-beliefs", ridiculing our beliefs, and eventually casting insults. And because the "religious" gives up the debate the atheists assume victory, or that our faith is a mere crutch that they have whittled away with their infinite knowledge of how man and morels have come to be and how the universe was formed.
The paragraph above is one of the reasons that I came to the conclusion that hardcore atheism is a religion in its own right. It may not fit the traditional and technically correct definition, but since hardcore atheism seems to have its own very strong belief system, as well as a compulsion to inform others why belief in a God is wrong, I can't help but think that it's pretty darn close to a religion.

Along those same lines, and with respect to the example provided by sayemthree of [hardcore] environmentalism as a religion, I too agree, with the same reasoning as provided for hardcore atheism. Clearly I'm taking some liberties with how I use religion in this case, but there are parallels to be drawn. Just as a hardcore traditionally religious person might proselytize to others and insist that their viewpoints/beliefs are the only correct way to live, hardcore atheists and hardcore environmentalists similarly have strong beliefs that what they believe is the only correct way to live/think. The super religious might want laws changed to reflect what they believe (e.g., DOMA, don't ask don't tell), the atheists have their own (their interpretation of separation of church and state, suits filed when religion seems to permeate into public spaces), and the environmentalists have their own, as well (cap and trade, global warming based legislation).

Quote:
On the topic that this thread has changed to; claiming that morals didn't come from the bible and belief in God is just silly. Just because you don't want it to be true doesn't mean it isn't. I'm not religious and frankly am offended when labeled with that term. Offended because religion has been and is tainted by man and his greed for territory, power, and riches.

nostrom09 has presented the most unbiased, logical argument in this thread. Without resorting to an insult or belittling anyone's belief. Sadly, simple human decency has become commendable in these forums.
I would expand the origin of morals to include all gods, past and present, since human civilization has been around for longer than the current monotheistic belief systems. But we certainly agree on the importance that religion and belief in gods and God has had on the shaping, understanding and enforcement of morals on society. Even those who have also contributed to the thread believe that religion was an important development in the history of mankind, though you and I now differ from them with respect to its importance or relevance in modern society.

The term religious is something that a lot of my friends also tend to eschew as well (I'm 28 for a frame of reference of the maturity level of the people I'm bringing up). I have a friend who considers herself born again spiritual. She doesn't belong to a particular religion per se (though she does attend services -- not sure which ones though), but considers herself to have a personal relationship with God that transcends the dogma and disciplines of any particular religion.

And thank you for the complement, MP0WER. I think this thread has remained very civil. Even if it hadn't, while I would likely have been frustrated, I find that discussions like these help to refine my position on topics that I normally wouldn't discuss with others.

Quote:
With regards to atheists being the most despised minority; you only have to look towards the elitist all knowing attitude most of them project. Then make the connection that they insult and ridicule the beliefs of the majority and it's obvious as to why the polls reveal this data.
I must agree with the above, as well, as it refers to hardcore atheists (I always must add hardcore because I have friends who are atheists, but they don't talk about it much even when conversation turns to that). But the same must be said about those who push any agenda so hard that it becomes obnoxious.

As an aside, I don't believe that I'd classify anyone on these threads as hardcore atheist -- while we certainly have had some spirited discussion, that was the purpose of the thread, so had we had very muted opinions of the whole thing, I would have been rather disappointed. =)
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