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      05-29-2009, 08:39 AM   #354
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Drives: 2009 M3 coupe - Manual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ontario

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Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Why is your "line in the sand" based on a change of part? It is very arbitrary. Again, for the third time, showroom stock means showroom stock, not only in regards to the actual physical pieces of the car but also with regards to the adjustments of those components - all adjustments. There is no qualifier on "100% showroom stock" it does not mean stock parts and what essentially amounts to an aftermarket tune. Just because the suspension is capable of adjustment does not mean those adjustments are the showroom condition of the vehicle, they absolutely are not. I really think 99% of folks will agree with me on this. Modifications are modifications, period, parts, tune, adjustments, software, ANYTHING. It is not about what is available stock it is about how it IS delivered stock.

I'm done with this part of this discussion, we clearly disagree and are not going to close the gap.
By that logic altering tyre pressures etc is also cheating as it is not the same as when the car came out of the showroom and that's done to every car that does a track timing session. By your logic also the 911 GT3-RS time is not valid as they altered the suspension.
The M3 time is not valid as it was done with the competition brake pads which aren't available in North America so the time is only valid for Europe. Or would be if it weren't for the tyres they used which also aren't available in North America as pointed out there by Lucid. If that's not cheating then the faster runs on Japan only wheels and rubber for the GTR are also valid.

I think 99% of people will agree with me. See I can say that too and it means as much as when you say it. I think 99% of people on here will think we have little better to be doing than discussing the GTR on an M3 site.

Every manufacturer cheats to get their ring times.

Magazines are no better. In the US all the magazines quoted 0-60mph times are nonsense. They don't measure the first foot which doesn't sound like a lot but ends up knocking around 0.5secs off the time. Car and Driver fessed up to this 2 months ago and now in the reviews show both times and even call it the real time and the cheating time (mostly).

Everyone cheats to make headlines.

And from day 1 it has been known that every GTR has more than the quoted bhp. They're hand built engines so they'll never get them exactly the same so err on the side of more power. I haven't read of any of them actually putting out less than 500bhp.