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      12-06-2008, 10:43 PM   #287
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Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

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Originally Posted by haen View Post
I just provided stats from both manufacturers!!! You have no factual evidence to back up anything you say so you've resulted to calling Mercedes a liar. That's so incredibly weak. Have you ever written a research paper? You need sources to back up what you say. Otherwise, you're just running your mouth.
Skepticism is so unpopular, unfortunately. Again my point is that things are likely not apples to apples. No I've never written a research paper smart guy, my lowly three degrees never involved any writing nor research. Take it easy with the assumption, insults and insinuations. You OPINION is obviously contentious and up for some good healthy debate. Deal with it. Posting some links to worldcarfans does not make you unconditionally correct. Part of good research is healthy skepticism and common sense as well.

Originally Posted by haen View Post
Why can't BMW make their engines any displacement they want? How does the M3 having higher displacement mean it will cost more? So you're telling me that if BMW designed the M3 to have a 5.0 liter V8 that instead of its 4 liter version, that it would be priced at the same level as an M5, solely because of its displacement? I hope you never run a car company.
TAXES IN MANY COUNTRIES ARE BASED ON DISPLACEMENT. Look it up. I never said an M3 with a 5.0 l engine would cost the same as the M5. However, it would cost more than it does now in many countries. Try reading instead of assuming. Now and in the future many countries will adopt a taxation strategy based on CO2 emmissions, not displacement, but obviosuly correlated.

Originally Posted by haen View Post
And you just admitted that you don't know anything about the classes or rules the M3 will race under, so all of your comments are without merit. When production based cars run in race series, they generally have restrictor plates which limit the amount of air the engine can draw in. If all engines can only breath the same amount of air, then they should be equally limited in the amount of power they produce. Oxygen is just as important as gasoline in the combustion cycle as it is the fuel for the gasoline.
If you say displacement means nothing for any race series based on production engines I'll take that at face value. Doesn't sound entirely plausible but definitely not an area where I have great knowledge. Perhaps some others can chime in and verify this?

Originally Posted by haen View Post
How is the M3 more technologically advanced? How does it push the envelope further? You need to remember, that engines are built with more than just attaining 100+ hp/liter. So while this engine may be an excellent example of a high revving motor, it does not discount other engines because they were built with different goals in mind. I already said all of this to you before but nothing gets to you.
You already answerd some of this question yourself. Loads scale with rpm^2, high rpms = very high loads. To design something light and stiff and strong is a challenge. I've done lots of that myself. As well the challenges of wear, tribology, electronic controls, lubrication and balance all come into the to picture of the technology. Also, I firmly agree with footie as his post just above. Lower torque = lighter drivetrain and all of the benefits you get from that. Less stored energy in the drivetrain, better throttle response, lighter vehicle, etc. As well the incredibly broad and flat torque curve of the M3 is a result of it outstanding engineering.

I have never discounted the C63 AMG nor Z06 engines. They both are obviously filled with good technology in their own rights and clearly get the job done quite well. It is simply a preference as well for the thrill and emotional involvement of a high revving engine. Driving an M5 you obviously know something about this. It is more race like, period. You can talk all day (and I do...) about price to performance and absolute performance and which car is faster, but a huge factor in ALL of our own decisions about which cars we most admire and which we choose to buy is EMOTION.

Seriously, it is time to check the assumptions, attitude and insults at the door.