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      08-20-2008, 02:24 PM   #79
Lieutenant Colonel

Drives: Legacy GT - 13.704@99.39
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Manheim, PA

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Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
This is a popular opinion but BMW / SAE has a rating of 300 hp..... sure there can be games but as you well know the ECU can make adjustments.....

Are you attributing all the RS4 kills to gearing?
Not at all. The M3 tends to beat the RS4 because it weighs less. More on that in a moment, but can we now agree that your 335 vs A6 4.2 comparison is nonsense? Hey, I'm not complaining that the 335 is underrated, but the fact remains that the drive wheel power output of these engines is in the 275 - 285 HP arena, which means in turn that the 300 HP "at the flywheel" number is nonsense. In addition, boost against preload (or popping the clutch at high rpm) gives the 335 a huge advantage off the line. That, plus the several hundred pound weight disparity, gives your current car a major advantage over your old car - but it ain't because Quattro is some power-robbing "horrible" powertrain.

Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
I am not sure what you want as data and proof. RS4s losing? Personal experience my A6 4.2 felt dead after 150 kph? RS4s losing? The RS4 vs. M3 torque curves on the other thread? Where the torque to the wheels for the RS4 (420hp) is significantly lower than the M3 (414hp).

Sure I don't like Audi because of their dogmatic use of Quattro and their inferior implementation of AWD.
Enough said, (almost).

I've never seen a chassis dyno result on a 335 xi, but you can bet the results will be down compared to a rwd 335 - so you can also expect chassis dyno results to be down on the RS4 compared to the M3. After, all, you're transmitting power through three differentials instead of one, plus the attendant u-joints, cv joints, etc. Then you've got to add in the rolling resistance of the two additional tires on the dyno wheels.

Look, guy, because of awd and the weight differential, you'd expect the RS4's quarter mile trap speeds to be down by between three and four percent, with the ET disparity closer due to the awd launch capabilities. Near as we can tell from the lists, that's where the cars fall.

Bottom line, I'm not trying to say anything about which car is better, just that based on what I see in this string plus my own experience, Quattro is far from "horrible", and it certainly isn't particularly power hungry.


PS - Since third gear in our A6 4.2 was good for about 110 mph, it certainly felt very strong to me at 150 kph, and in fact it was at 150 kph and above where our car began to pull on both of the 540s I happened to meet.




*(albeit inconsequential and anal enough to make you think the participants had to be potty trained at gunpoint)