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      07-30-2008, 11:58 AM   #29
Major General

Drives: F30 and waiting for F80
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

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Originally Posted by Icedog_16 View Post
You see, this is exactly why I'm hesitant to get involved in political threads. I post facts and I get the above response.

Another intellectually-stimulating post. Bravo! Posts like that undermine your position severely.

Care to debate the issue on a point-by-point basis and cite your sources? Show me where I'm wrong. I've cited three separate sources that prove that the Gulf War was never indeed over; Iraq violated the terms of the cease-fire, period. It was their actions that led to the UN's decision to go after him in the first place. How you can dismiss that as crap is beyond me. You obviously put a lot of thought and research into that position.

I'd be very interested to know exactly how many UN rules we've ignored in the last 50 years. I guarantee that, unlike Iraq, we didn't give the world the finger on 17 UN resolutions that were brought about as the result of our invasion of a sovereign country. I'd like to know how many countries we have invaded unilaterally and without provocation in the past 50 years as well. Please show your work as I did.

Honestly, sir, if your posts are an insight as to the mindset of a fervent Obama supporter, I weep for the future. The sad part is that your vote counts just as much as mine, so our votes will likely cancel one another out.

I am trying to figure out why you and others like you (and the Democratic party as of late) have such a complex of self-loathing, as evidenced by any number of your posts. Success and trying to see the good in ourselves is now apparently a bad thing in your eyes. Based on that, I'd guess that you probably also think that every kid should get a ribbon or trophy just for participating, because having a winner is detrimental to the ones that don't win - not unlike how you resent the US for being successful as that ends up making other countries feel inferior. Personally, I think this guy is on the mark when it comes to those of your ilk and is on topic when it comes to your post (I have put some sections in bold for emphasis):

I hope that hits close to home. Perhaps, you should take a moment to reflect upon that.

For the record, I am a registered Democrat and my views typically lean toward Libertarian. What bothers me is that though I am middle-of-the-road when it comes to my views, both candidates are to the left of me - one of them significantly. I'd rather not vote for either of them; however, I'm only really left with the choice of voting for the one that most closely reflects my values. That, in my opinion, is a sad commentary on the state of politics in this country.
It is all how you read the resolutions and how it fits your (our Gov't) agenda.

1) We're the ONLY nation in history that used the WMD against the other nation
2) We're the only nation that invaded sovereign countries for own and unjustified reasons.

3) The war with Yugoslavia in 1999 was NEVER approved by the UN and Security Council. Furthermore, the Congress NEVER proclamed it as the War even though it is required to do so after so many days (I am not sure of the exact number).
- to continue there -- we supported publically announced terrorist organization (KLA) in that war -- we were IN BED with them all the way.

4) War in Iraq was NEVER approved by the UN and SC. Your resolutions all cite "may consider" or similar words, nowhere "approved".

5) In the eyes of the World, we (the USA) is greater threat to the World peace than any terrorist organization or any dictatorship out there.

Finally, you have a hard time understanding a simple concept -- being against one does not mean you're with the other one (the only other choice). I find many negative things about Obama, but not even close to what Bush did, lied, proposed or whatever in the last 8 years. 8 years ago I saw a bright future for my kids in this country, today, and if this continues -- I see none.

You c/p words from propaganda sites above and crap that can be translated two ways -- the way it fits the reader. I have traveled in the last 12 years more than most people on this board or people you know. I have talked to people, compared lives, happiness, economies of the other countries to the USA. We're have been going steadily down while most of the others were going the opposite way -- especially since 2000.

I am against Bush, against this stupid Dem Senate (or whatever you call it), against last 8 years of sinking. Put whoever you want in the office that will show positive things. So far, I have only seen positive energy and optimism from Obama's side, and funeral-like rallies from the other...

To answer your question -- how many countries provoked us that we attacked:
1) Yugoslavia has NEVER provoked the USA
2) Iraq has never done anything bad to us and it was proven by our own Gov't that it had no ties to Al Qaeda and no intention to hurt us
3) Somalia...
4) How did Vietnam hurt the USA? Or was it another World Police thing and to get closer to the USSR?

Now, show me another Western developed country that has the same or even similar record, please...