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      03-12-2008, 06:23 PM   #29
bartman32
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Originally Posted by gum5h03 View Post
You're right none of the above absolutely certainly proves there is some higher intelligence that has helped shape this universe, but the circumstantial evidence is pretty good I think.

I don't think evolution is a mark against a higher power, in-fact I think it's a mark for one. If I were to create a sentient willful being wouldn't I want it to build upon experiences of past species in order to allow it to survive and thrive? However perfect DNA is, some of the genetic coding can only be accomplished with time.

Our ancestors used to be reptiles, in-fact when we are in utero we still exhibit a reptilian like tail. Our brains also contain a reptilian portion (responsible for some emotions, autonomic functions and sex drives). Over the past hundred million years the human brain has had bulding blocks added to it over and over again. It now helps process our daily life, give meaning to our thoughts, has helped us create language , art and science.

The same case can be made for DNA. It is a nearly perfect form with the perfect chemical composition. Every living thing on this world uses DNA. Ask yourself this, why with all of our technology can we not create a being from scratch? Why can't we make our own DNA molecule from amino acids in a lightning chamber and clone them and then set them off to make a being? Sure we can clone sheep and manipulate DNA but we cannot and never will be able to create DNA from nothing.

And where did it come from? Do you really buy the fact that over billions of years atoms formed molecules which spontaneously formed complex amino acids which then spontaneously formed single celled organisms which then formed DNA? I know of a few billion atoms that have done nothing but be the same boring atoms they always have been since the beginning of the universe. Why did only a small percentage grow from a state of homestasis to essentially a state of entropy?

Why is there life at all in the universe? Life does not benefit the universe. It would happily keep going if there were no such thing as life, yet it exists and thrives. And why isn't there life on the sun (I'm assuming there isn't)? The sun has the same atoms and molecules that are here on earth. Why over the past billions of years has there been no life there? Surely if there is life here there must be life everywhere right?

I akin the likelyhood of an omnipitent being to an advanced computer programmer or architect. As a programmer you set the boundaries, the protocols/rules and the use cases down in the beginning and watch the program run. You don't sit and watch every bit or byte flow by and check that it is in compliance with what the program does, you just trust that the program boundaries were correct in the first place. So too, if there is a God he has set the rules of this universe. Gravity, carbon based life, water, all the atoms we could ever need, plants that cure us of illness, DNA, evolution, etc.



Scientists are slowly coming to the realization that the physical universe we live in is much more complex and difficult to understand than once thought. Gone are the good old days where E=Mc2. Cosmologists are at the forefront of some very exciting theories and discoveries that are literally so bizarre that they would warp the mind of even Einstein. Here is an example; http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/sc...n.html?ei=5087


The ability to prove there is a God is like trying to prove anything. I can not prove that an apple falls from a tree, I can only prove that I perceive that the apple falls. You cannot prove that gravity really exists because you can make several cases in which it does not. Bottom line is that if you base your faith on science your beliefs will change as often as their theories do.

I like what you have to say here. That is usually pretty close to my reasoning that God exists. However I also have reasons for why he must not - as an Agnostic.

If God did exist why would he allow the suffering, the wars the terror that happens? Why would he allow WWII with millions of people to die? Sure there can't be good without evil (how would you know either without the presence of both) but if evil can be so violent and so damaging why is there not the existence of its opposite?

Also if God existed and we weren't simply an accident don't you think we'd have come across (or would soon come across) life in other worlds? Wouldn't this have been replicated somewhere else? Or are we to believe that we are made to continue to evolve and spread around the universe much like Star Trek?

Just food for thought...
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