View Single Post
      02-14-2008, 04:15 AM   #93

Drives: em-funf
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Originally Posted by gmund1948 View Post
anything that is not modern is not good?

Take my 1994 Porsche 911 RSAmerica that has basically the same suspension as the 1964 911 in front and a 1952 Porsche 356 in the rear and will handle as well as any E36 or earlier M-3 and stay with many E-46 Ms on a track.

I drove a e92 M3 hard for nearly an hour on Sunday, followed by the 08 Corvette Z-51 and followed by the E93 335I.

I am glad I ordered the M-3, it is fantastic,a true super coupe or sedan. The Corvette however has much cleaner lines and is fun to toss around it is more of a super car feel. The Z-06 is almost too much.

I am a true M-3 believer, and was as ignorant and as stubborn as you are in acknowledging the Corvette as a world class sports car, I talked trash about
Vettes until I took one out on a track. \\

If you refuse to try you refuse to learn,

That said, since you likely had to look-up the direction the leaf-springs
on a vette were facing but not why they are part of the design then
then you allow yourself to be uneducated. Old Technology is not so bad
My house in Germany was built using a brick design that dates back 500
years, holds heat in the winter, and is cool in the summer. The Beer I drink is a 600 year old recipe.

There is much danger in keeping a closed mind
No, I didn't had to look up direction of leaf springs on the vette. I don't know everything about the vette, but basics I do know. Even without knowing, it is pretty intuitive to figure they wouldn't place leaf springs as they do on a full size Silverado. Anyway...believe what you want.

If the word handling was such subjective term as you perceive it to be, we might as well place F-350 dually as the ultimate handling machine or maybe Ford fusion or any deviation thereof. My M3 rides on 550lb springs and poly bushings. I classify its handling as mediocre at best, certainly not because it will be faster on track than average car, but because handling entails so much more than how fast you go around the track. Level of damping, rebound, braking balance, weight shift and overall optimization is all part of the equation. (E90 325i handles better than E36 M3. It is newer and better optimized design). Taking all this into account M3 is few million light years ahead of vette. It was since E21 generation.

Sure, vette is fast and has tons of grip, but it is infinitely more unstable in the corner if it gets upset, and you better be a master of opposite lock if back end drifts away. Inherent design of leaf springs will always lag behind handling prowess of multi-link rear.

My opinion is that corvette makes up for its lack of better suspension design with more rubber. C6 Z06 carries 275s front and 325/30 series back. Now compare that to NEW M3, 245f/265b. So now you have a lighter car with more rubber. Even if you had truck suspension (which you do heh) you would grip so much more to the point where even mediocre suspension would stop being a bottleneck. Put the same tires on the heavier M3 and see how it would compare on the track. It would be a comical comparison at that point.

I am not discrediting vette for what it is, but for what it is not. I appreciate the car for its intended purpose and for its low budget great performance. Is it a supercar in terms of speed performance? Yes. Is it best bang for the buck in universe? Yes.

There is nothing wrong with old technology. I wouldn't doubt if vette has more durable and sturdier suspension, especially for street. M3s need suspension replacement every 50k to handle like they do. M3 probably has dozen more bushings than a vette, none of which help with durability.
LSX engines aren't even remotely as maintenance needy as I-6 or the new V8. I could go on...but to draw parallels that old technology suspension is equivalent to handling of newer designs is absurd. It works, it is durable, it handles decently, but lets leave it at that.


Seriously you have not just wrote this:

As I like to say, a spring is a spring is a spring. The function of a spring is simple; to support the weight of the car
read up on some of the simple stuff such as progressive springs, which are getting outdated.

...still after everything, i want a big bad american V8 to abuse

Last edited by malter2.0; 02-14-2008 at 04:31 AM.