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      02-07-2008, 11:33 AM   #142
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By the way, if you're atheist, agnostic, or whatevcer you are, why do you come to, and post on the religion thread?

Why wouldn’t I? I am very concerned about the direction this country is going to. On election day, religious people pick a candidate based on religion. That affects me and my family.

I am upset how being religious is perceived as having high moral values! It bothers me that religious activists are knocking on my door offering salvation!
There are a few very involved e90post members who post exclusively on this thread and don’t have a BMW. Is that a crime too?

My question is this, why is it that liberals, atheists, etc.... always say that people should have an open mind and be able to freely believe anything they want, yet spend all their time trying to cram their own belief system down other people's throats?

When was the last time an atheist knocked on your door trying to cram their opinion?
Spend all their time?!?!? Are you kidding me? Being a NON believer is just that. Religious people put this label on us. Am I a NON NFL player as well? A NON golfer? Do I get together with other NON golfers to talk about not playing golf???

As for me, I'm a Christian. I have no doubt in my mind that I'm correct. As you probably have no doubt in your mind that you are correct.

This is where you are totally wrong. I have doubts about many things. That makes me skeptical and a critical thinker. You accept things at face value and have NO doubts. That is where the danger is.

I would be foolish of me to think that I know there is no God!!! There is so much we don’t know. Humans are a very young species. That being said, until there is a physical evidence (physical world is one we live in, BTW), NOT anecdotal hearsay, NOT 2K years old man made book that has been re-written and translated many times, I will assume that there is NO God of any kind.


If you don't believe in what I believe, that's fine. In my opinion, you'll have to answer to a much higher judge than I someday, but that's between you and him, and once again, that's just my opinion.

Which judge is that? Buddha? Allah? JC? Zeus?

Here's how I see it. I believe when I die, that I will live in eternity in a place far greater than this, and if I didn't accept Jesus, I would live eternity in a place far worse than this.

Do you have any evidence that you base your belief on? Are 1.5 billion muslims delusional? Jews? Hindu?

You believe that when you die, the lights just go out and nothing happens. Bam, it's all over. So if you're right, when I die, it will just be lights out....I was wrong, who cares. But if I'm right, when you die, you're going to have to live a long time in a really bad place. You may disagree, but I prefer my scenario better. As it stands right now, I get either really good or nothing, and you get either really bad or nothing. If I'm playing poker, I like my hand a little bit better.

This claim is called Pascal’s wager. Here are its major flaws:

1. Isn’t an omnipresent and omni-intelligent God going to see trough your little poker strategy? You are really admitting that there is a possibility that he might NOT exist? That will piss him off and you might not end up in heaven.

2. For your strategy to work, you must worship THE God, NOT A God. Read your first commandment. I assume that you don’t worship Allah, Buddha, Ishvara, Zeus, YHWH, Bhagavan or other thousands of available deities? It not a 50:50 wager between atheism and Christianity.
You could be wrong!
According to islam you are going to burn in hell. Me too. So, you might end up worshipping a wrong deity and end up in hell, just like me. Wouldn’t that be something.

3. If you think about it, you are an atheist like me. I just believe in one less god than you.
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