View Single Post
      12-25-2007, 05:16 AM   #228
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

Originally Posted by ruff View Post

The quotes below are from your original thread starter. You make reference to Nissan's yet to be released GT-R.

^Fan boy or Scientist? You have also proven yourself to be a good scientist. The problem there in lies in the fact that despite your good intentions, you can't avoid losing some of your scientific credibility when talking the M3, simply because of your worship like affection for it. By the way, I love your Sagan quote about truth > ego.

I know that you will buy the M3 no matter how it performs, how BMW treats you as a customer or what the competition brings to the table as far as performance or packaging. You have made yourself clear....and you will be buying a great car. My enthusiam for the M3 is once again gaining momentum. And in no small part, thanks to you.

Maybe you are incapable of really believing you are wrong, particularly when it comes to discussing the M3. You take great pride in telling others that you are right and telling those same people they are wrong. I also know that in doing so you believe it builds your status on this forum. Sadly, human nature proves this to be true. I would also say that many times you are absolutely right and others have been dead wrong, specifically, me.

You are right when you say you are an excellent contributor to the forum. There are some things that you bring to the table that no one else can. Your simulation work is exceptional, despite the fact that I like to hassle you about it.

Swamp, you are one of my favorite forum members as proven by my "meta" responses to you over the past year. I enjoy the debate and always learn something new from you. I think we all need to remind ourselves that we are all fan boys and passsionate about cars in one form or another. That is why we spend way too much time on this forum. Hopefully, though I am not overly optimistic, BMW will provide it's fan base with some Christmas spirit, by lifting us from the chains of bondage with the imminent release if U.S. specs and pricing.

Swamp, best wishes to you and your family during the holiday season and beyond. 2008 looks like it is gearing up to be a really exciting year for hard core, high reving motor heads. It really is the best of times.
I guess I find it quite possible to distinguish between fan and fan boy. A great M fan I will admit, however, I will never accept the title of fan boy. It is sort of like saying hey ruff, you are a Ben and Jerrys fanboy. I will and clearly have leaned too heavily in the direction of skepticism thus far in regards to the GT-R. Again all it really comes down to is that extraordinary claims do indeed require extraordinary evidence. If BMWs and other journalists numbers looked as suspicious, I'd take nearly the same appoach. Furthermore, I don't think my small obsession with this forum nor passion for M cars can be aptly described as anything close to a "worship like affection". How many time do I have to list all of my criticisms of the car, BMW and this release?

I think you are correct that it is highly likely I will buy a M3. You really do make it sound like this is further evidence of my being a fanboy. For one I won't do it without driving one myself and for two what is so terribly bad about intent with the information we know at this point in time? Your comments about regardless of how it performs and about what the competition will offer seem mostly irrelevant given what we know today. We all know the performance of both the M3 and most of the performance of its close competitors.

I too enjoy your posts as well. I guess neither of us would reply back and forth as much as we do if we thought the other was some unintelligent troll. I've said it once and will say it again - your balance, skepticism and the quality of your prose is both valuable and refreshing here.

Thanks much for the kind words and wishes in your closing. Your post certainly represents a very gracious ending of a too long and too heated debate and discussion.

Happy Holidays to you and yours. Be safe, drive well and all the best for the new year and for whatever exciting new car may lie in your future.