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      12-21-2007, 11:12 PM   #183
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

Originally Posted by ruff View Post
I figured you couldn't help yourself and you would have to respond despite your statement not to do so. You are a master flip flopper, numbers cooker, and slick, when it is convenient for you to do so. This is why it useless to even try to present real evidence to you and have any kind of legitimate debate. Remember you drivel about Toyota and Lexus getting the best of me with marketing and then when I presented the evidence from J.D. Power and Associates, you had a quick change of tune, but of course you were still right and I was wrong....Classic Swamp.

Congratulations. Your concrete and rigid M3 fan boyism takes your narcissism to a whole new level..."CASE ClOSED?" Take your CASE CLOSED to any enthusiast forum besides this one, including other BMW sites, and see how ridiculous you look. This statement holds no water outside the friendly confines of this forum.

You are quick to dismiss steering feel as a subjective performance factor becase it is apparently numb in the M3 and great in Porsches. You even inferred you were pleased it was more numb than the base 3 series. Another example of your master of rationalization to fit your rigid thinking. You do this because it obviously bolsters your M3 DCT fantasy. If the M3 had great steering feel we would never hear the end from you with how important it is and how it bests it's competitors. We both have driven enough cars to know steering feel is very real and is of the upmost importance to a sports car. It is much more important than your obsession about a tenth of second here or there, but listening to you, you would never know it.

You are right and I am wrong (enjoy that b$%&#, it is not going to happen often) I said I would not continue to engage, but I can not just let your enormous absurdity go on and on and on. Have fun, keep changing the topics, rehashing old news, drawing in totally irrelevant old news, never address the real issues up for debate and discussion and weasel your way out of any serious and honest admissions. You don't want to deal with evidence here EVER because you never have any. It is that simple.

Nice avoidance of the SINGLE yes/no question I demanded you answer. It is painfully obvious why you can't - it makes your last 5 or so posts completely worthless/redundant/contradictory. Oh well enjoy wallowing in your own mess. This is absolutely and truly despicable to me ruff. ANSWER THE F&^$@#* QUESITON ABOVE YOU COWARD! If I sound pissed, I am.

You are really getting me going now. Time to back up your BS empty statements. FIND ME A single god damn number I have "cooked". You can't you lying sack. Time to not be so jealous of someone good with numbers, science and evidence. Time to head back into your little dark age cave and enjoy your hopelessly subjective world.

Last I checked car performance was a very OBJECTIVE thing, that means NUMBERS. No, it is certainly not the whole story but they sure don't talk much about feel and other flowery BS when the winner gets the checkered flag do they? Show me any number where the 997S price to performance ratio bests the E92 M3, then you have an agrument on this. Of course if you value two tenths here or there at $25k then yes-sir-eee you've got a point. Until then NOTHING. Yes, CASE CLOSED. Perhaps you should refer back to the thread tracking all of the performance figures for both cars? Oh yeah that is objective and compiled by a bunch of members here, myself included - it must be cooked. Ugh.

Another fantastic mis-representation of my comments on steering feel vs. steering numbness. You simply can not accurately recapitulate anything I say here, despite it being CRYSTAL clear. You change, warp and modify to suit your own twisted little games, insecurities and lies. It is beyond old, ruff, time to act like a freaking adult. Just to be 100% clear (again) on the steering issue: I said I feel that the E36 M3, although having excellent steering transmits too much of the bad along with the good through its steering system. I thought it would be a great idea for BMW to lose as much of the bad while trying to preserve as much of the good/needed feel and feedback as possible. And although I have not driven the car IT SOUNDS like this is what they have done. This is simply NOT AT ALL how you represented my thoughts above, NOT AT ALL.

I may be embarrasing myself here with my inability to control my anger but you are embarassing yourself in a much worse way. Ruff, this is pathetic.