View Single Post
      12-21-2007, 07:11 PM   #181
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

Originally Posted by ruff View Post

One of the things I like about you is you are always good to reply to people's posts, even if it isn't fun.

Don't you think it is a bit difficult to misquote you when I cut and paste your very own quotes? You are the one who worries about your ridiculous "status" on an internet forum, not me.

Listen to yourself, could you be just a bit more narcissistic? The only person I have ever know who is never wrong is Swamp, what a burden it must be.

The very reason you are arguing with me is because I did state in my original post on this thread that IMO, BMW was resting on it's Motor Sport laurels and the GT-Rs incredible price to supercar performance caught M on an extended Siesta.

My opinion didn't fly with your fantasy that the M3 outperforms everything in it's class for the money, unlike my thread on the M3 being a better performer, C2S without an LSD, which, surprise surprise, you thought was a great thread on my part. Although I am sure you also believe the M3 is also a better performer than a C2S with a LSD per your belief that the M3 is the best perfoming car for the money.

If I am lucky enough that my opinion happens to fit into your M3 performance fantasy world, there is never an argument between us now is there? Infact, I would be getting that a boys from you. This GT-R must really be causing you some dissonance and heartache. 0-60 in 3.3 and not on ideal surfaces. No more, at least logically, hanging your hat on the M3 being the performance/price choice. So now, as expected, you back track and say price to performance is not the most important thing....oh ya, so now what is the most important thing...back seats or in reality is it really the fancy German Marque and accompanying status and street cred? What else could it be? Performance, obviously is not your first prioty, as you always state, because if it was, there are now better choices than the M3 don't you think?

Now if you would of just said, you just like M3's the best, that would of be fine. However, to see you go on and on the past few years about the M3's performance advantage vs the competition and how price to performance is what sets it apart from the competition; then just as quickly about face and try to discredit the GT-R in every which way, looks a bit disingenuous don't you think?

Would you still like more of my opinions on the GT-R vs M3 in regards to price/performance?

If I were a betting man, I would guess you will respond to this, even though you claim you will not. Venture to guess your ego and "status" will not be able to let this go. However, I could be wrong and have been wrong many times over, something you apparently have never had the fortune or misfortune to experience.
Thanks, it helps being stubborn as we can both attest to!

By misquoting, what I specifically mean is that you have missed the unequivocally clear INTENT of my stance (which was explicitly clarified ad nauseam) by quoting a single sentence I placed in a post. Are you familiar with the immense power of limited quoting? Politicians do it all the time. Even in the post from which this quote came from it was clear that given the present state of the evidence I am unwilling to admit I am incorrect about the possibility that the GT-R is under-rated. My crystal clear stance for perhaps the millionth time is that there is evidence on both sides and the jury is out. You know this is my position but can't let go of your silent little jabbing me in the side exercise/game. You simply have to cut to the chase here and say you agree that my stance is clear and that your isolated quote unfaithfully represents my stance. If you claim otherwise, we simply can not continue a rational discussion on this. This is the one direct, no nonsene question for which I demand a yes/no answer from you.

Funny you mention how I am "never wrong" when I just was a couple posts back! gbb357 pointed out me being 100% wrong and I thanked him for a useful tip. Talk about absolute maximum irony.... Are you following along here? Is the ADD getting to you as well? Oh well nice try.

You are also flattering yourself greatly in your characterization as to why I am arguing with you. It could not be much less related to the potential competitive stance between BMW and Nissan and the M3 vs. GT-R. Continue on with your view of convenience, it is categorically incorrect. This is another point I have been clear, repetetive and unwavering on.

I still do contend that once we know the M3s price it will OVERALL outperform everything in its class and cost less as well. We pretty much know this already. Sure the C63 is faster in a line and the IS-F will be close enough that this will be a drivers race. But in all comparisons thus far the M3 has prevailed OVERALL. I simply do not call the GT-R a direct competitor to the M3 its targets are the 997TT and Z06, etc. Comparisons will be abound between the M3 and GT-R and they are certainly more appropriate than say a Cayman to a C63, but the actual "out the door" US price is a much bigger question on the GT-R than M3, isn't it? If the GT-R performs as it has been and it is sold for list price we have heard, it will be THE price to performance champ in the ENTIRE world, period. That is what I admire most about the car and it is a "spec" Nissan execs have directly quoted themselves, something like the cars "lap time per dollar". Not only do I respect this but I have touted it over and over and over. Will you please read what I write and accept it as my honest opinion rather than the constant psychology games and meta-posts where you try to fit what you think are my motivations with my actual words. Your ability to reconcile the two is NIL.

Ugh, back to Porsche and the 997S. What a dead topic. Who in their right mind would not say that in terms of raw performance numbers that the M3s price to performance far exceeds the 997S? This case is closed. You can argue steering feel, brake fade, weight (pretty red or yellow calipers) and this and that all day, but in the end the numbers are what they are the and M3 pretty much matches or exceeds the 997S in all metrics for nearly $25k less. CASE CLOSED.

Your perpetual second guessing, accusations through "psychological speculation", meta-posts and misrepresentation are absolutely exhausting. It is 100% apparent you do not wish to discuss the actual issue at hand and have nothing to add there.