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      12-17-2007, 08:05 PM   #119
swamp2
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Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruff View Post
If I may.

If what you claim is really true, then isn't the the GT-R the logical choice.

I just don't know how many times you need to repeat your supposed praise for the GT-R, then go out and search for every simulation performance number you can find that puts the M3 in a good light and the GT-R in a not so good light.

[M3] = Numb steering, brake fade?
No, no, no.

I'd much rather discuss my quest for causality and consistency in the automotive performance domain... But if you really want me to re-hash all of my personal criteria and weightings, etc., here we go...

I have explained my personal rationale to you (and to others and to the whole forum) time and time again yet you refuse to listen. Price to performance is at the top of my list but it is not the sole criteria. Indeed if it was, I would have been on the list for the GT-R long ago. However, let's not even get into the discussion as to whether or not you will be able to actually buy the car without a HUGE markup (you would rightly assume my belief is that you won't)... Anyway, my personal criteria are a solid mixture of price to performance, a true daily driver, an automated manual (almost a firm requirement at this point), four real seats, trackable, great looks and an above average level of luxury, comfort and build quality. Did I build my requirements around making the M3 the only fit or is this truly the car I want independent of the existence of the M3, probably a little bit of both honestly, but I do believe it is more of the latter. Where does the GT-R fall short, for me and in light of the above criteria? It is mostly the 4 real seats and the looks, which we all know are nearly 100% subjective.

You can view it any way you like but given how much I have praised the car and how much of a fan of technology you know I am do you think I am lying about this? Really what do you think? Do you think I only say I love the car and secretly I am fuming that it will stomp the M3 for about the same price? I really could not care less. My quest for data, simulations, analogies, etc. for the GT-R is a quest for CONSISTENCY, really that is it. Physics, math and engineering are way more important to me than cars. Until the car can be understood from this perspective and its performance is justified by its specs and the physics, all will not be well and at rest with swamp. It is really quite simple. Again, take it at face value or not. I am getting tired of explaining myself.

Finally, no, the new M3 is certainly not perfect but for me it seems awfully close. How many have found it has excellent steering or excellent with only very minor criticisms? How many have found no problems with the brakes? The former is highly subjective and the latter is also to some extent depending on the roads or tracks you are on and how good of a driver you are. I'll drive any car including the M3 before any final decisions are made. Unfortunately, it is very unlikely I (nor most) will have the chance to flog it nor flog it on a track before making a purchasing decision. Hence it pays to be as well informed as possible and that is a huge value of this forum.