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      10-26-2007, 08:37 AM   #79

Drives: IS300
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
What if I told you that a stock Honda Civic went 0-100 mph in 8 seconds?

From that tiny bit of data you would know that something was clearly and majorly wrong. The case here with the IS-F is a bit more subtle (which you cant seem to appreciate) but the concept is the same. Get it, can't you abstract just a tiny bit? If you had more data on the car you could start to figure out what was wrong. "Stock" would be my first guess which includes power, weight and tires. Timing errors or simply going off a cliff might be other less likely possibilities . Look, it is basically F=ma, force equals mass times acceleration, also called Newtons Law. That is what governs 90% of the behavior of the acceleration of a car. If you know F and m you know a, you can not specify all three to you liking. Know why it is called a "law"? Because it can not be broken. Perhaps not even a strong enough term as people can indeed break legal laws.

Do you know how much variation exists with dyno tests as well? Apparently not. They are quite good for A-B comparisons, say after a mod with all else exactly equal, but for an absolute prediction they have large variation and they test the vehicle not the engine. I guess you know that different brands of dyno give different results as well? Clearly the car is not changing the measurement accuracy is!

I think it is also safe to assume that you are not aware that this software does have as on option and ability to repeatedly launch a car under a variety of conditions (clutch drop and clutch slip at any rpm for both and "power braking" as well for automatics, again at any rpm). Then the software automatically (in about 2 seconds) optimizes the launch to get the best acceleration. You then instruct the software to accept the optimized launch schedule before proceeding to get simulation results. Neat eh? This is not simply a formula or spreadsheet you plug numbers into. It is physics based numerical simulation that numerically integrates (do you know what that means?) in real time the behavior of many systems of a vehicle all coupled together.

Sure each magazine does multiple runs but again you did not read nor understand my comments about variability. I am not talking about that kind of variation, I am talking about the variation among all magazines (and all drivers) who by the way use journalists who are not professional drivers but are certainly good enough to get a good 0-60 or 1/4 mi time or whatever.

I can just keep going and going... I never said "my data" nor my calculations are the final conclusion nor did I say any reported results are "wrong". Each piece of data is a piece of what I consider to be a puzzle and all I am saying is something does not fit up amongst the data we have and SIMULATION can further provide insight into things not adding up.

I think I am going to stop wasting my time and do some more simulations which are interesting, fun, educational and useful. However, I am finding it less and less of these trying to discuss this with you. Of course I will continue to accept new data including more magazines results and other dyno results.
First of all you did say "your conclusion", i even quoted you on it. There is always going to be variation on the results. I already have given you an example from 4 different magazines. The 0-60 range where from 4.2 to 4.8. No way any car even with the same driver will come up with the same figures all the time, let alone with different drivers from different magazines. C'mon that's a given. You're right, stop wasting your time, your not going to be right all the time. Making an example of a stock civic going 8 secs to 100mph is really pathetic. You seem to be very smart but your logic is comical at best and you lack common sense. See ya.

Last edited by gbb357; 10-26-2007 at 11:01 AM.