View Single Post
      09-23-2013, 11:15 PM   #1
regular guy
Lieutenant Colonel
157
Rep
1,948
Posts

Drives: Sprint car
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Exclamation Official S65 Bearing Specification/Clearance Wiki

Table of Contents:
  • Engine and Clearance Specifications
  • Connecting Rod Bearing History and Part Numbers
  • Comparing the S65 Clearances to other BMW Engines
  • Three truths of S65 bearing/side clearance
  • Historical Background of S65 Bearing Issue
  • Discovering S65 Bearing Issue
  • Connecting Rod Side Clearance Issue
  • Crankshaft and Bearing Changes (TBD)
  • Clevite White Paper
  • Confirming S65 Bearing Issue
  • Detonation vs. Bearing Wear: Could this be the cause?
  • Great Bearing Measurements of 2014
  • Bearing Eccentricity
  • Proposed Solutions
    • VAC/Calico Coated Bearings
    • Comparison between Virgin 702/703 bearings and Calico Coated bearings
    • WPC Treated Bearings
    • Thinner Oil
    • Crankshaft Machining
  • S65/S85 Bearing History
  • S65/S85 Bearing Hardness Issues
  • Bearing Photo Database
  • Related Threads

Engine and Clearance Specifications:
EngineS65B40
Cylinders8
Piston Bore92.00 mm3.6220 inch
Crankshaft Stroke75.2 mm2.9606 inch
Displacement3999 cc244.05 sq. inches
CrankshaftForged
Conecting Rod Length140.72 mm5.5402 inch
Connecting Rod Weight621.5 grams21.92 ounces
Piston Weight487.0 grams17.18 ounces
Crankshaft Main Journals & BearingsMetric DimensionsSAE (Inch) Dimensions
Main Journal Dimensions59.9758 mm2.36125 inch
Main Journal Variance59.9694 - 59.9821 mm2.36100 - 2.36150 inch
Main Journal Tolerance-0.0063, +0.0063 mm-0.00025, +0.00025 inch
Bed plate + Bearing Dimensions60.0164 mm2.36285 inch
Bed Plate + Bearing Variance60.0126 - 60.0202 mm2.36270 - 2.36300 inch
Nominal Main Bearing Clearance0.0406 mm0.00160 inch
Bearing Clearance Variance0.0305 - 0.0508 mm0.00120 - 0.00200 inch
Bearing Clearance Tolerance-0.0102, +0.0102 mm-0.00040, +0.00040 inch
Crankshaft Rod JournalsMetric DimensionsSAE (Inch) Dimensions
Rod Journal Dimensions51.9811mm2.04650 inch
Rod Journal Variance51.9786 - 51.9887 mm2.04640 - 2.04680 inch
Rod Journal Tolerance-0.0025, +0.0076 mm-0.00010, +0.00030 inch
Connecting Rod DimensionsMetric DimensionsSAE (Inch) Dimensions
Rod L.E. Bushing Dimensions20.9995 mm0.82675 inch
Rod B.E. Bore Dimensions56.0070 mm2.20500 inch
Rod B.E. Variance56.0019 - 56.0172 mm2.20480 - 2.20540 inch
Rod B.E. Tolerance-0.0051, +0.0102 mm-0.00020, +0.00040 inch
Rod B.E. Thickness18.4125 mm0.72490 inch
Rod B.E. Variance18.4010 - 18.4201 mm0.72445 - 0.72520 inch
Rod B.E. Tolerance-0.0114, +0.0076 mm-0.00045, +0.00030 inch
Bearing Dimensions (088/089 Bearings)Metric DimensionsSAE (Inch) Dimensions
Nominal Bearing Thickness (Top, Blue)2.0028 mm0.07885 inch
Nominal Bearing Thickness (Bottom, Red)1.9977 mm0.07865 inch
Bearing Thickness Variance (Top, Blue)2.0015 - 2.0041 mm0.07880 - 0.07890 inch
Bearing Thickness Variance (Bottom, Red)1.9964 - 2.0015 mm0.07860 - 0.07880 inch
Bearing Tolerance (Top, Blue)-0.0013 - 0.0013 mm-0.00005 - +0.00005 inch
Bearing Tolerance (Bottom, Red)-0.0013 - 0.0038 mm-0.00005 - +0.00015 inch
Con Rod Clearance (088/089 Bearings) (1)Metric DimensionsSAE (Inch) Dimensions
Rod + Bearing Dimensions52.0179 mm2.04795 inch
Rod + Bearing Variance (1)52.0154 - 52.0192 mm2.04785 - 2.04800 inch
Nominal Rod Bearing Clearance0.0343 mm0.00135 inch
Bearing Clearance Variance (1)0.0152 - 0.0533 mm0.00060 - 0.00210 inch
Bearing Clearance Tolerance-0.0191 - +0.0191 mm-0.00075 - +0.00075 inch
Bearing Clearance per Journal inch0.00066 inch/inch
Bearing Clearance per Journal Inch Variance (1)0.00029 - 0.00103 inch/inch
Bearing Eccentricity0.0216 mm0.00085 inch
Bearing Eccentricity Variance0.0178 - 0.0229 mm0.00070 - 0.00090 inch
Bearing Eccentricity Tolerance-0.0038 - +0.0013 mm-0.00015 - +0.00005 inch
Bearing Dimensions (702/703 Bearings)Metric DimensionsSAE (Inch) Dimensions
Nominal Bearing Thickness (Top, Blue)1.9977 mm0.07865 inch
Nominal Bearing Thickness (Bottom, Red)1.9939 mm0.07850 inch
Bearing Thickness Variance (Top, Blue)1.9977 - 1.9990 mm0.07865 - 0.07870 inch
Bearing Thickness Variance (Bottom, Red)1.9939 - 1.9952 mm0.07850 - 0.07855 inch
Bearing Tolerance (Top, Blue)0.0000 - 0.0013 mm0.00000 - +0.00005 inch
Bearing Tolerance (Bottom, Red)0.0000 - 0.0013 mm0.00000 - +0.00005 inch
Con Rod Clearance (702/703 Bearings)Metric DimensionsSAE (Inch) Dimensions
Rod + Bearing Dimensions52.0192 mm2.04800 inch
Rod + Bearing Variance52.0179 - 52.0294 mm2.04795 - 2.04840 inch
Nominal Rod Bearing Clearance0.0381 mm0.00150 inch
Bearing Clearance Variance0.0292 - 0.0508 mm0.00115 - 0.00200 inch
Bearing Clearance Tolerance-0.0089 - +0.0127 mm-0.00035 - +0.00050 inch
Bearing Clearance per Journal inch0.00073 inch/inch
Bearing Clearance per Journal Inch Variance0.00056 - 0.00098 inch/inch
Bearing Eccentricity0.0508 mm0.00200 inch
Bearing Eccentricity Variance0.0444 - 0.0584 mm0.00175 - 0.00230 inch
Bearing Eccentricity Tolerance-0.0063 - +0.0076 mm-0.00025 - +0.00030 inch
Rod Bearing Alternatives
VAC (Calico) Coated Rod Bearings (2)Metric DimensionsSAE (Inch) Dimensions
Rod + Bearing Dimensions52.0141 mm2.04780 inch
Rod + Bearing Variance52.0090 - 52.0141 mm2.04760 - 2.04780 inch
Nominal Rod Bearing Clearance0.0330 mm0.00130 inch
Bearing Clearance Variance0.0203 - 0.0356 mm0.00080 - 0.00140 inch
Bearing Clearance Tolerance-0.0127 - +0.0025 mm-0.00050 - +0.00010 inch
Bearing Clearance per Journal inch0.00063 inch/inch
Bearing Clearance per Journal Inch Variance0.00054 - 0.00063 inch/inch
WPC Treated Rod Bearings (3)Metric DimensionsSAE (Inch) Dimensions
Rod + Bearing Dimensions52.0281 mm2.04835 inch
Rod + Bearing Variance52.0268 - 52.0332 mm2.04830 - 2.04855 inch
Nominal Rod Bearing Clearance0.0470 mm0.00185 inch
Bearing Clearance Variance0.0381 - 0.0546 mm0.00150 - 0.00215 inch
Bearing Clearance Tolerance-0.0089 - +0.0076 mm-0.00035 - +0.00030 inch
Bearing Clearance per Journal inch0.00090 inch/inch
Bearing Clearance per Journal Inch Variance0.00088 - 0.00100 inch/inch
VAC (Clevite) Custom Rod Bearings (4)Metric DimensionsSAE (Inch) Dimensions
Rod + Bearing Dimensions52.0344 mm2.04860 inch
Rod + Bearing Variance52.0294 - 52.0344 mm2.04840 - 2.04860 inch
Nominal Rod Bearing Clearance0.0508 mm0.00200 inch
Bearing Clearance Variance0.0406 - 0.0559 mm0.00160 - 0.00220 inch
Bearing Clearance Tolerance-0.0102 - +0.0051 mm-0.00040 - +0.00020 inch
Bearing Clearance per Journal inch0.00099 inch/inch
Bearing Clearance per Journal Inch Variance0.00093 - 0.00103 inch/inch
Bearing Eccentricity0.0203 mm0.00080 inch
Bearing Eccentricity Variance0.0114 - 0.0254 mm0.00045 - 0.00100 inch
Bearing Eccentricity Tolerance-0.0089 - +0.0051 mm-0.00035 - +0.00020 inch
  1. Taken from Clevite blueprint using factory bearing specifications.
  2. Full set of virgin Calico coated bearings measured in rods, and rolled-up with measurements from all cranks and all journals.
  3. Full set of virgin WPC treated bearings measured in rods, and rolled-up with measurements from all cranks and all journals.
  4. Full set of virgin VAC / Clevite / Calico coated bearings measured in rods, and rolled-up with measurements from all cranks and all journals.

Crankshaft History and Part Numbers
Crankshaft History
BMW Part NumberDescriptionWeightKgsApplicationProd. StartProd. EndSuperceded By
11 21 0 390 426Crankshaft with Bearings41.8 lb19.0 kgS85B50Apr-04Oct-0711 21 0 390 427
11 21 0 390 427Crankshaft with Bearings41.8 lb19.0 kgS85B50Sep-04Jan-0911 21 7 841 660
11 21 7 841 660Crankshaft with Bearings43.9 lb19.9 kgS85B50Apr-08Jan-0911 21 0 443 602
11 21 0 443 602Crankshaft with Bearings41.0 lb18.6 kgS85B50Jan-09Present
BMW Part NumberDescriptionWeightKgsApplicationProd. StartProd. EndSuperceded By
11 21 7 841 641Crankshaft with Bearings43.9 lb19.9 kgS65B40Jun-07May-0811 21 7 841 658
11 21 7 841 658Crankshaft with Bearings45.0 lb20.4 kgS65B40Jan-08Feb-0911 21 0 443 639
11 21 0 443 639Crankshaft with Bearings41.0 lb18.6 kgS65B40Jan-09Present


Connecting Rod Bearing History and Part Numbers
Connecting Rod Bearing History
BMW Part NumberDescriptionLocationColorStandard Size BearingsApplicationProd. StartProd. EndSuperceded By
11 24 7 835 662Connecting Rod BearingBottomRed52.00 mm (+0.00 mm)S85B50Apr-04Apr-0411 24 7 836 288
11 24 7 835 663Connecting Rod BearingTopBlue52.00 mm (+0.00 mm)S85B50Apr-04Apr-0411 24 7 836 289
11 24 7 836 288Connecting Rod BearingBottomRed52.00 mm (+0.00 mm)S85B50Sep-04Apr-0711 24 7 838 088
11 24 7 836 289Connecting Rod BearingTopBlue52.00 mm (+0.00 mm)S85B50Sep-04May-0711 24 7 838 089
11 24 7 838 088Connecting Rod BearingBottomRed52.00 mm (+0.00 mm)S85B50, S65B40, S65B44Feb-06Oct-1111 24 7 841 702
11 24 7 838 089Connecting Rod BearingTopBlue52.00 mm (+0.00 mm)S85B50, S65B40, S65B44Feb-06Mar-1111 24 7 841 703
11 24 7 841 702Connecting Rod BearingBottomRed52.00 mm (+0.00 mm)S85B50, S65B40, S65B44Jun-10Present
11 24 7 841 703Connecting Rod BearingTopBlue52.00 mm (+0.00 mm)S85B50, S65B40, S65B44Jun-10Present
BMW Part NumberDescriptionLocationColorOversize BearingsApplicationProd. StartProd. EndSuperceded By
11 24 7 835 974Connecting Rod BearingBottomRed51.75 mm (+0.25 mm)S85B50Apr-04Apr-0411 24 7 836 290
11 24 7 835 975Connecting Rod BearingTopBlue51.75 mm (+0.25 mm)S85B50Apr-04Apr-0411 24 7 836 291
11 24 7 836 290Connecting Rod BearingBottomRed51.75 mm (+0.25 mm)S85B50Aug-05Dec-0711 24 7 838 090
11 24 7 836 291Connecting Rod BearingTopBlue51.75 mm (+0.25 mm)S85B50Aug-05Dec-0711 24 7 838 091
11 24 7 838 090Connecting Rod BearingBottomRed51.75 mm (+0.25 mm)S85B50, S65B40, S65B44Sep-05Present
11 24 7 838 091Connecting Rod BearingTopBlue51.75 mm (+0.25 mm)S85B50, S65B40, S65B44Sep-05Present


Comparing the S65 Clearances to other BMW Engines
The BMW TIS DVD set is a good source to gather lots of technical data on various BMW engines. Unfortunately, it is missing the data I want most from the S65. The data presented below shows how bearing clearance has changed over time on various BMW engines. It's not enough to just look at bearing clearance unless you also look at journal size. It's the ratio of clearance to journal size that is the all important piece of information we want out of this.

Some people also want to know how the clearance and maxRPM match up. So I've included a column to calculate the RPM to Clearance ratio.

Columns are as follows:
  • Model
  • Engine
  • Max RPM
  • Min Clearance (mm)
  • Nominal Clearance (mm)
  • Max Clearance (mm)
  • Min Clearance (SAE)
  • Nominal Clearance (SAE)
  • Max Clearance (SAE)
  • Journal Size (mm)
  • Clearance-to-Journal Size Ratio (mm)
  • Journal Size (SAE)
  • Clearance-to-Journal Size Ratio (SAE)
  • RPM to Clearance Ratio

There's a few things that jump out from this data.
  1. Around E36 and beyond, BMW switched to using much wider clearances to journal size ratio, and better RPM-Clearance ratio.
  2. E46 M3 after the recall went to the industry standard 0.001" per journal-inch clearance specification.
  3. S65 has the second worst clearance to journal size ratio, and by far the worst RPM to Clearance ratio. It's pretty clear that for whatever reason, the S65 sticks out like a sore thumb in this list.

BMW ///M Engines (Main Bearings)
Sorted by Model
ModelEngine
Max RPM
Oil
Min(mm)
Avg(mm)
Max(mm)
Min(SAE)
Avg(SAE)
Max(SAE)
Size(mm)
Ratio(mm)
Size(SAE)
Ratio(SAE)
RPM-Clr Ratio
E28 M5S38B35 (Main)
6900
0-30 to 5W40
0.020
0.033
0.046
0.00079
0.00130
0.00181
59.987
0.0006
2.362
0.00055
1254
E30 M3S14 (Main)
6900
0-30 to 5W40
0.020
0.033
0.046
0.00079
0.00130
0.00181
59.987
0.0006
2.362
0.00055
1254
E30 M3S14 (Main)
6900
0-30 to 5W40
0.030
0.050
0.070
0.00118
0.00197
0.00276
55.000
0.0009
2.165
0.00091
759
E34 M5S38B35 (Main)
6900
0-30 to 5W40
0.020
0.033
0.046
0.00079
0.00130
0.00181
59.987
0.0006
2.362
0.00055
1254
E34 M5S38B35 (Main)
6900
0-30 to 5W40
0.030
0.050
0.070
0.00118
0.00197
0.00276
59.985
0.0008
2.362
0.00083
828
E34 M5S38B36 (Main)
7200
0-30 to 5W40
0.020
0.033
0.046
0.00079
0.00130
0.00181
59.987
0.0006
2.362
0.00055
1309
E34 M5S38B36 (Main)
7200
0-30 to 5W40
0.030
0.050
0.070
0.00118
0.00197
0.00276
59.985
0.0008
2.362
0.00083
864
E34 M5S38B38 (Main)
7200
0-30 to 5W40
0.030
0.050
0.070
0.00118
0.00197
0.00276
59.965
0.0008
2.361
0.00083
863
E36 M3S50B30 (Main)
7280
0-30 to 5W40
0.020
0.033
0.046
0.00079
0.00130
0.00181
59.964
0.0006
2.361
0.00055
1323
E36 M3S50B32 (Main)
7600
0-30 to 5W40
0.020
0.033
0.046
0.00079
0.00130
0.00181
59.964
0.0006
2.361
0.00055
1381
E36 M3 VertS52 (Main)
6800
0-30 to 5W40
0.020
0.039
0.058
0.00079
0.00154
0.00228
59.987
0.0007
2.362
0.00065
1046
E39 M5S62 (Main)
7000
10W60 (-02/2000)
0.025
0.038
0.050
0.00098
0.00148
0.00197
69.964
0.0005
2.754
0.00054
1306
E39 M5S62 (Main)
7000
5W30 (+03/2000
0.025
0.038
0.050
0.00098
0.00148
0.00197
69.964
0.0005
2.754
0.00054
1306
E46 330iM54 (Main)
6500
0-30 to 5W40
0.020
0.039
0.058
0.00079
0.00154
0.00228
59.942
0.0007
2.360
0.00065
999
E46 M3S54 (Main)
8000
10W60 (-02/2000)
0.019
0.036
0.052
0.00075
0.00140
0.00205
59.964
0.0006
2.361
0.00059
1351
E46 M3S54 (Main)
8000
5W30 (+03/2000)
0.019
0.036
0.052
0.00075
0.00140
0.00205
59.964
0.0006
2.361
0.00059
1351
E60 550iN62 (Main)
6500
0-30 to 5W40
0.024
0.038
0.052
0.00094
0.00150
0.00205
69.984
0.0005
2.755
0.00054
1197
E60 M5S85 (Main)
8250
10W60
0.029
0.037
0.046
0.00115
0.00144
0.00180
59.984
0.0006
2.362
0.00061
1353
E92 335N54 (Main)
7000
0-30 to 5W40
0.020
0.033
0.046
0.00079
0.00130
0.00181
55.996
0.0006
2.205
0.00059
1188
E92 335N55 (Main)
7000
0-30 to 5W40
0.020
0.033
0.046
0.00079
0.00130
0.00181
64.996
0.0005
2.559
0.00051
1379
E92 M3 (2007-2013)S65 (Main)
8400
10W60
0.029
0.037
0.046
0.00115
0.00144
0.00180
59.984
0.0006
2.362
0.00061
1378
F10 550iN63 (Main)
7000
0-30 to 5W40
0.020
0.033
0.046
0.00079
0.00130
0.00181
64.977
0.0005
2.558
0.00051
1378
F10 M5S63 (Main)
7000
0-30 to 5W40
0.020
0.033
0.046
0.00079
0.00130
0.00181
64.977
0.0005
2.558
0.00051
1378
Ferrari 328 GTS3.2L (Main)
7700
10W40
0.013
0.032
0.051
0.00051
0.00126
0.00201
62.986
0.0005
2.480
0.00051
1516


BMW ///M Engines (Rod Bearings)
Sorted by Model
ModelEngine
Max RPM
Oil
Min(mm)
Avg(mm)
Max(mm)
Min(SAE)
Avg(SAE)
Max(SAE)
Size(mm)
Ratio(mm)
Size(SAE)
Ratio(SAE)
RPM-Clr Ratio
E28 M5S38B35 (Rod)
6900
0-30 to 5W40
0.020
0.038
0.055
0.00079
0.00148
0.00217
48.983
0.0008
1.928
0.00077
901
E30 M3S14 (Rod)
6900
0-30 to 5W40
0.020
0.038
0.055
0.00079
0.00148
0.00217
47.983
0.0008
1.889
0.00078
883
E34 M5S38B35 (Rod)
6900
0-30 to 5W40
0.020
0.038
0.055
0.00079
0.00148
0.00217
48.983
0.0008
1.928
0.00077
901
E34 M5S38B36 (Rod)
7200
0-30 to 5W40
0.020
0.038
0.055
0.00079
0.00148
0.00217
47.983
0.0008
1.889
0.00078
921
E34 M5S38B38 (Rod)
7200
0-30 to 5W40
0.030
0.050
0.070
0.00118
0.00197
0.00276
48.983
0.0010
1.928
0.00102
705
E36 M3S50B30 (Rod)
7280
0-30 to 5W40
0.028
0.049
0.070
0.00110
0.00193
0.00276
49.983
0.0010
1.968
0.00098
743
E36 M3S50B32 (Rod)
7600
0-30 to 5W40
0.026
0.047
0.068
0.00102
0.00185
0.00268
48.983
0.0010
1.928
0.00096
792
E36 M3 VertS52 (Rod)
6800
0-30 to 5W40
0.020
0.038
0.055
0.00079
0.00148
0.00217
44.983
0.0008
1.771
0.00083
816
E39 M5S62 (Rod)
7000
10W60 (-02/2000)
0.029
0.048
0.067
0.00114
0.00189
0.00264
48.983
0.0010
1.928
0.00098
714
E39 M5S62 (Rod)
7000
5W30 (+03/2000
0.029
0.048
0.067
0.00114
0.00189
0.00264
48.983
0.0010
1.928
0.00098
714
E46 330iM54 (Rod)
6500
0-30 to 5W40
0.020
0.038
0.055
0.00079
0.00148
0.00217
44.983
0.0008
1.771
0.00083
780
E46 M3S54 (Rod)
8000
5W30 (-02/2000)
0.030
0.050
0.070
0.00118
0.00197
0.00276
48.983
0.0010
1.928
0.00102
784
E46 M3S54 (Rod)
8000
10W60 (+03/2000
0.030
0.050
0.070
0.00118
0.00197
0.00276
48.983
0.0010
1.928
0.00102
784
E60 550iN62 (Rod)
6500
0-30 to 5W40
0.028
0.049
0.070
0.00110
0.00193
0.00276
53.983
0.0009
2.125
0.00091
716
E60 M5S85 (Rod)
8250
10W60
0.025
0.048
0.070
0.00098
0.00187
0.00276
51.984
0.0009
2.047
0.00091
903
E92 335N54 (Rod)
7000
0-30 to 5W40
0.025
0.048
0.070
0.00098
0.00187
0.00276
49.978
0.0010
1.968
0.00095
737
E92 335N55 (Rod)
7000
0-30 to 5W40
0.025
0.048
0.071
0.00098
0.00189
0.00280
49.978
0.0010
1.968
0.00096
729
E92 M3 (2007-2010)S65 (Rod)
8400
10W60
0.015
0.034
0.053
0.00060
0.00135
0.00210
51.984
0.0007
2.047
0.00066
1273
E92 M3 (2011-2013)S65 (Rod)
8400
10W60
0.029
0.038
0.051
0.00115
0.00150
0.00200
51.984
0.0007
2.047
0.00073
1146
F10 550iN63 (Rod)
7000
0-30 to 5W40
0.025
0.048
0.070
0.00098
0.00187
0.00276
53.981
0.0009
2.125
0.00088
796
F10 M5S63 (Rod)
7000
0-30 to 5W40
0.025
0.048
0.070
0.00098
0.00187
0.00276
53.981
0.0009
2.125
0.00088
796
Ferrari 328 GTS3.2L (Rod)
7700
10W40
0.046
0.068
0.089
0.00181
0.00266
0.00350
43.628
0.0015
1.718
0.00155
498
HondaK20A2 (Rod)
8050
5W30
0.020
0.040
0.060
0.00079
0.00157
0.00236
49.988
0.0008
1.968
0.00080
1006
HondaK203A (Rod)
6800
5W20
0.025
0.049
0.072
0.00098
0.00191
0.00283
44.988
0.0011
1.771
0.00108
631

Last edited by regular guy; 06-16-2015 at 09:54 PM.