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      09-13-2007, 08:30 PM   #18
devo
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Drives: .2GT3/335Cpe/991 GT3 coming
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: thinking about cars, girls and money, not necessarily in that order.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I just do not see how you can be so sure. I cetainly am not sure either way but I am open to the possbility and am willing to look at all of the relevant data. It seems clear to me your "pride" and love of P-cars leads you to some undeniable bias here. Let's look at the facts:
  • A BMW engineer reportedly claimed the car will best the 911 S at the ring
  • 911 S Sportauto time is 8:02
  • BMW has a better power to weight ratio than the 911 S and has been found to out brake the Cayman S and base 911. Agreed in lower speed braking but this is a clear accomplishment given the much greater weight of the M3
  • Audi R8 SA time is 8:04
  • The M3 substantially trumps the R8 in power to weight when you consider power to the wheels
  • Testers have found despite the good AWD system in the RS4 they can corner and exit harder with in the M3 (R8 AWD = RS4 AWD, correct?)
  • BMW has been shown in multiple tests to out sprint the R8

Last but not least we also know that the European verison of the car when ordered with 19" wheels will come STOCK with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup+ tires (appropriate emphasis on the "+").

I am ready to go out on a limb here. Sportauto will achieve a sub 8 minute N-ring time with the M-DCT car with the aforementioned tires.

I am not ready to go out that far on a limb in terms of the MT non Cup+ tired car. But if it doesn't it is going to be dangerously close.

Is your opinion simply a hunch or can you better support your opinion with facts?

P.S. I'd be happy to place a large wager on the point in bold, ready to put your money where your mouth is?
Sure, it can happen. The tires and the aforementioned tranny will likely improve the times.

Personally, the 8:02 for the 997S is one of the quicker runs. 8:05 seems to be the most popular reference. A 997S w/x51 (381 hp) "only" did an 7:59. I am always a little skeptical when the times are one second beneath the hour. Frankly, I find it amusing that one lap is the standard. Even if the M runs a sub 8:00 min lap, that doesn't mean any "ring" advantage will hold up lap after lap on another course. The M simply is not as focused a sports car as the 911S; and it's not meant to be. But, that is not what this post was initially about.

For the record, it's not that I don't believe that the M COULD run quicker than the 997S, it's that I don't think it will run a sub 8:00 lap. That is what I am responding to. As far as besting the 911, who knows. It will be close. But remember Porsche's hp bump may be all that's needed to keep it competitive in this type of test.

Do you find it fulfilling to argue with anyone who has an opinion that isn't BMW gospel?

At least your not quite as worked up as I thought you'd be, but you're still taking this a little too seriously. And, no I don't care to wager because there are too many variables that affect this kind of thing. Remember, I am very likely buying this car for my summer dd and maybe more fun car. So, I hope it does run fast. With that said, I am not as blindly brand loyal as some here.