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      04-04-2013, 05:13 PM   #20
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Drives: 08 E90 M3 DCT
Join Date: May 2011
Location: SoCal

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2008 BMW E90 M3  [4.50]
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Do you have upgraded swaybars? I assume aftermarket suspension?

It's possible that in some of the corners you're lifting a wheel, causing MDM to assume you're slipping and apply the brakes.
I have KW clubsport suspension with stock swaybars.

I'm always trying to get a picture with a wheel lifted but it seems pretty hard to get. Your theory is still possible though.

Originally Posted by admranger View Post
The Euro MDM didn't seem that intrusive at all in the first video. Looked like you were getting some pretty good yaw angles at times and it didn't come on. It didn't seem to react to the curb assaults either.
I drove for some time with euro MDM and never felt it was that intrusive, except for hairpin style corner or when I mess up. My issue has been very fast front pad wear once I got fast enough. I think MDM is to blame for that. I used up 8mm of Endless ME20 in <2 days with MDM on.

Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Euro MDM is a pretty good compromise. For those of us who are out to have fun and want a high probability of not wrecking our cars, it's fairly unobtrusive. I rarely feel it come on while on track. On the street on cold tires a few weeks ago I almost had a spin on an open on ramp and had to make some very large steering corrections to save it. Euro MDM was on and I'm not sure it did anything so that particular instance warned me that you can still lose it with Euro MDM.
I'm all for Euro MDM on track (and even better DSC off) but I honestly don't see the use on street. I leave full DSC on for street use. And even with full DSC on, you can still lose it and crash. Plenty of examples of that. My recommendation is for you to simply leave it full DSC on for the street.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I think that is exactly the point of the video. MDM does light corrections that most drivers (beginner/intermediate) would not feel. It is mosty the "big" corrections that are felt. In the video we can clearly see MDM applying slight brake pressure to the front/outside tire to limit/prevent oversteer. The car is clearly not yet in an oversteer situation when MDM intervened.

Someone that drives on track only with MDM will continue to apply more throttle and/or more steering input than the grip can take and this WILL become a bad habbit. I can recall a few forum members here that were adamently defending the use of MDM at the track, until they started driving without it

As I posted in the other thread, for a complete noob, using MDM is most likely the right thing to do. But IMO, as soon as one is comfortable on the track and the conditions permit, the aids should be turned off. If one feels they are at risk of crashing: slow down.
Very well said. I was surprise to see brakes being applied in my MDM video since the car was in good control. Euro MDM has let me drift quite a bit in some corners so I thought it wasn't kicking in unless I was too out of shape (drift angle). The point of the video is to prove that it is doing something even if you don't think so and could certainly explain the quick wear of my front pads.

For me, here is how I describe going from Euro MDM to DSC off from a driving perspective. While driving with Euro MDM, you need to make steering angle correction when the rear end comes loose but you don't have to worry about throttle input (the computer is doing that for you). Going to DSC off, you need to both make steering correction and modulate throttle to make it out in one piece. The earlier you learn to do both, the better