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      01-12-2013, 03:04 PM   #28
jaehshim
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Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Northern NJ

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LOL

OP obviously has the skill to read stats, no true skill in practical sport driving.

drop out of powerband
you are right. but that's the SKILL you learn with manual sports car with these types of engines. not paddling through your fingers and let the automatic gearbox do the work. what's so sporty about that?

"what is this, a vtec?"
while it sounds funny, this is actually a good statement.
YES, the S65 is a lot like V tec engine, especially in the "flexible" powerband of the engine. when you are out of gear, the rpm of the engine will drop very fast.
Like all ferrari NA engines, like Porsche NA engines, V Tec engines and our M NA engines, the downfall of rpm is very fast with gear in/out.
This is especially true for NA engines, which are so "responsive" in this aspect than any turbo engines.
Together with manual drive, this is what makes the "sporty" character of a sports car, a sporty engine.
YES the DCT can do it faster and you won't have to worry about the precise gearing into the right rpm via double or heel toe with the third pedal. but ultimately you are losing all the fun about "driving" these engines.

That's what makes these engines so responsive and sensitive, and requiring the good skill to get 100% potential out of its sporty character.

This is the reason why we feel "dull" when we drive the American muscle NA engines and even audi S and RS NA engines, you can just see their rpm falling so slow when the gear is in/out.
And with this, when you are driving under a very sporty condition of fast corners and speed, you are lost because you can never expect the exact timing of the downfall of these engines during gear in/out, ultimately makes the car less responsive and dull

Little last comment about the M5
Driven the new M5 in manual, it is completely different from the M3.
the turbo, yes no lag and it's fast and all, is never responsive in this aspect of gear in/out rpm rise/fall. When you are out of gear you just have to wait and wait until this damn rpm falls. In this regard, when put together with an MT, M3's S65 NA engine is a perfect package.

Finally, M3 doesn't work well with manual car?
We've seen the "toughness" of this clutch M provides for the M3. Those who have driven other popular manual cars, like carerra, S2K, etc, will easily say our clutch is deeper and requires more force. But with that in mind, our stock clutch and tranny is good enough to withstand 600 whp+ upgrades, no problem whatsoever

We all know DCT can perform, and the trend is in that direction for all automotive sport industries.
But it's like asking why buy a full manual SLR camera when a simpl point-and-shoot can find resolution, focus, and shoot for you.

so before you make a statement like that, perhaps go drive manual more and enhance your skill, especially with these marvelous NA engines.
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