Thread: 400 RWHP Club?
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      01-12-2013, 04:40 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Mike does show a graph from a dynapack. A lot. It's even linked in this thread (and many others), so its implied that it's easily reachable and used as a primary means of marketing, thus setting expectations that others can easily reach that number also. I have dynoruns from when his car was dynoed here as well.
I think that's a pretty misleading statement Tom. Those dyno runs were done by Shawn Church who is a very well respected tuner and probably does ten times more volume than ESS, Evolve, and I combined on non German vehicles.

Furthermore, since it's a dynapack it's not going to account for losses attributed to the wheels and tires since it bolts directly to the hubs. The point of a dyno is to show DELTA gains, not compare one to another. I never said reaching a particular number was easily attainable and I have never set unreasonable expectations. I'm sure if you read many of my other posts you'll realize that I'm pretty realistic especially when speaking of dyno numbers. You're comparing apples to oranges.

If you want to post dyno runs from when my car was dynoed well over a year ago with a test file (which made great gains I will add), then please post the dyno of the dyno of the MS intake VS the AFE intake that was done on the same day on your own dyno so everyone can see the difference. At least there was a gain with the tune!

In terms of marketing, I don't really review my own products. Sal touched on the fact that you do. Our tunes sell themselves and we don't post tons of marketing threads at all. In fact, the BPMSport GB was one of the first threads I've ever posted in the sponsors section. I'm rarely over there.

Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Now back to Mike. According to the reviews on the forums, there are a lot of Mike's tunes out there. And a lot of happy users. One of his last posts claimed over 30 of them just in the last session, why wouldn't results be shared? When we do see it, let's see the same info you are requesting from us, including timing and IATs as would only benefit everyone here.

It would definitely add credibility the tuners, as well as back up the claims.
The last group buy had 20 slots and most of them are tuned. They are free to hit the dyno if they want, I can't control peoples lives. I've done a ton of logging on the track and on the dyno. None of your results (aside from posting STD graphs) have IAT measurements.

Stock cars have their timing targets set at 32 degrees. If you dyno a stock car and it hits 32 degrees, keep running it and if you log the timing you'll see that it will drop down lower because of the rising inlet temps. Then flash a tune in and see what it does. There is only so much than can be achieved out of a heatsoaked car.

Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
But we don't tune, only validate. And the dyno doesn't discriminate. That's the difference as there's not an agenda to push. We need examples from tuners, tuning facilities and 3rd parties. We simply can't take only the tuner's word for it anymore.

Producing before/after results on real world vehicles (not his own) should be relatively simple, but doesn't exist. Are we simply supposed to simply take the tuner's word for it? Wouldn't a dyno be an everyday and essential tool used in tuning with plenty of data at hand?
I've never made any unrealistic claims so there is nothing really to dispute here. I have nothing to prove to you. As long as my customers are happy, I am happy. It's not all about numbers and dyno's are not the most accurate tools in the first place. The tune extracts what is safely left on the table without dumbing down any factory safeguards or using any 'tuner' tricks.

When customers that track their car 15 times a year email me and tell me that post tune they've shaved seconds off of their lap times, that's a REAL world result which holds much more bearing than a piece of paper with numbers on it.

I touched on some of these topics here:

I wish this customer would post his dyno but he's probably having too much fun driving his car

I've seen a few things from you that I'd like to bring to light but I'm not one to throw rocks in a glass house.

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Last edited by BPMSport; 01-12-2013 at 04:49 AM.