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      01-05-2013, 07:58 PM   #36
bruce.augenstein@comcast.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKE_M3 View Post
NASCAR and NHRA have max engine sizes, and I'm sure they target high power bands vs. low end torque within the very limiting restrictions they operate under.

Porsche's and Ferrari's come to mind, and I wouldn't call Honda S2000's exotic, but all three of those manufacturers build high specific output NA engines when they very easily could build torque monsters. The most exciting porsche to most people on this forum seems to always be the GT3, even over the GT2. The most exciting Ferrari to most is the Italia, which has a smaller motor than a $30k Mustang GT. Other street "exotics" I can think of are sport bikes. How many sport bikes use torquey V-twins, and how do they compare to the high revving BMW and Japanese four-bangers in performance?
Look, I addressed your original note, and explained point by point, very specifically - and politely - how your logic might be somewhat off.

Instead of either agreement or a fully reasoned rebuttal, you give me "I think my points are validated by the choice of low displacement, bore > stroke, high revving engines in all true performance applications, i.e. Formula 1, sport bikes, etc."

Then you state only those performance applications that bolster your opinion, and ignore other examples. Give me a break, here.

Listen, I brought up the ZR1 example to demonstrate how insanely high torque outputs don't typically result in driveline weight gains in any linear way - and precisely why that is so.

Now you say "NASCAR and NHRA have max engine sizes, and I'm sure they target high power bands vs. low end torque".

Well duh. Max power per unit of displacement is only reachable at higher rpm, whether force fed or NA. Torque monsters are valueless in a race environment, as long as speeds are high. Horsepower is the only arbiter when speed is part of the equation, so high specific output is mandatory. It's that simple.

Yes, I guess you could classify the ZR1 as a torque monster - but fortunately it's also a power monster.

I remind you that you are the only one talking about "torque monsters" here. Sheer power is what rules, whether it's developed at 8300 rpm or 4150.

Bruce