View Single Post
      08-24-2007, 09:31 AM   #93
hks786
Major General
United Kingdom
481
Rep
5,352
Posts

 
Drives: *
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
He did die, as a sacrifice for humanity.

I think were you might misinterpret this, judging from our previous posts, is that just because he died for the sins of Man, it does NOT mean that all sins are forgiven and we have free reign to commit whatever our weak flesh wants. After teh resurection, Jesus returned to the apostles to give them a charter for what became the new church. A part of that was where he granted teh apostles teh ability to forgive sins IF they are confessed. A part of that decision lies with the priest hearing the confession. I don't have explicit tuition on this subject since I did not enter the preisthood, but a detected feeling of remorse, and suitable penance must be preformed before the sin is forgiven. I can't quote you the verse but it's along eht lines of "those sins you forgive are forgiven, those you hold bound are held bound"
I know that Romans says that "the wages of sin is death" but if you say there had to be a sacrifice for forgiveness, you are limiting God's ability. God has no requirements to forgive. Allah says in the Quran that he says "be" and it is.

Also, why should you have to confess your sins to anyone other than God? I feel that Islam is the truth because it understands the concept of sin much differently.

Allah firstly says that "man was created weak". His noble Prophet (SAW) also said that "All children of Adam (AS) are sinners, but the best of sinners are those who repent".

However, I feel that the Bible contradicts itself. Jesus tells many parables etc that show us that forgiveness has NO requirement at all. The fact is that Allah is so loving and understanding about our weaknesses. He encourages us to go to him for forgiveness. He has the absolute power to exercise forgivess without any requirement. That my friend, is love.


Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede
Hence, we have an intermediary to absolve us of our sins. Having the humility to confess to another human, who will judge and help you with the proper decision is a good thing.
You speak of showing humility to another human, why not show humility to the one Lord who CREATED you? It is God's law you broke, not the person you confess to. We believe that Allah alone has the power to forgive sins. Why should we require anyone else to forgive us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
Jesus died so that all may avail themselves of his saving grace, Jew or Gentile. But, you must beleive in his nature and grace.
Well, if I was to respond to that I would firstly ask who is Jesus? I have shown at great length that he is not the Son of God. Now, even if he was the Son of God, it would be theologically impossible for him to die for the sins of the world. I feel there are just far too many impossiblities and unanswered questions like in the above post by me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede
He did NOT wipe out our sins, but won the right AS A HUMAN to forgive sins, and those that are forgiven by his grace never existed.
Okay bro. Lets suppose he paved the way for forgiveness. Either way, it still limits God's abilities to forgive. He needs nothing to forgive us. Anyway, how can God win any rights? he has full rights of everything since he is the creator. That statement limits God's abilities.

Also, how can we say that Jesus won the right as a HUMAN and then go on to say Jesus is God? If you are human, you cannot be God. They are completely different and it starts with God being infinite and Humans being finite. I posted this in post #445 in "World without mass religion":

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=445

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
I think I posted that somewhere else, that there are portions of God that FAR surpass our humble understanding, and that is where FAITH begins.
Faith must be based on something. How can you base it on nothing? If that is the case, how can you tell me to embrace Christ instead of Hinduism? Also, it is only to easy to say that we cannot understand the "mysteries of God". So by admitting we dont understand them, how can we believe it?

What I'm really trying to say is that how can you base faith on something you cannot be sure of OR understand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hav2flynow
God has a spirit just like our flesh body have a spirit.
But how do we know this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hav2flynow
Yes he did die as a blood sacrifice for all men
Why was this sacrifice needed when the Bible clearly shows that people can be forgiven if they turn to God and repent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hav2flynow
We lived in bodys of light with our spirit for millions of years as we will again, before Satans pridefull downfall. Since 1/3 of Gods children chose to follow Satan (Ezekiel 28: God loved Satan and made him the full pattern, before he became pridefull and turned on God) who was trying to take the mercy seat from God, God had to put our spirit in a flesh body to sort out who would (as a second chance) follow Him or Satan.(Thoes that wont follow the Father and chose to follow Satan will go into the lake of fire and the rest will again go back into our light bodys for eternity) Genesis 6:6 It grieved God that he made (flesh)man on the Earth. Satan did not appear in the garden at the creation of Adam and Eve (read Genesis 1:26, 6th day creation, Adam and Eve were 8th day creation, Genesis 2:7) from nowhere, we were in a perfect age with "Freewill". God will not make his children love him because that therefore would not be love.
Thanks bro, but I’m not sure this narration of events really answers my questions. Firstly, this is man’s word, not Gods. I’m sorry but the root of this problem goes way back to how the Bible was compiled. I’m not going to go into this since it is such a lengthy subject, BUT I cant see how any of this can be God’s word. Maybe parts of it are God’s word, but the fact is we cant be sure.

The fact is that thoughout the Bible we say that Paul and Jesus say different things etc. We see less of Jesus' original teachings as the Gospels progress etc. We see clear evidence that the 4 Gospels disagree when accounting the same events. We see the build up and heightening of Jesus' position from a Prophet of God to being God himself. etc.
__________________