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      08-21-2007, 03:25 PM   #445
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Originally Posted by uabimmer
Chapter 17 is Jesus' prayer to God. and in it you will find the verses 4 and 5 He says "... Glorify Me together with Yourself..." Jesus speaks of being together with God again as to what will happen after His crusifiction.
Thanks for the reply. Firstly, what I was trying to say is that Jesus said that he completed his work. He didnt say "I have completed my work except the last task of giving my life on the cross".

Also, God doesnt assign work to himself, he says "be" and it is. However, God sends Prophets to do duties and live among the people. Christians tell me that "God loved us so much, he put himself in flesh and came to us". If God came to us, why does God say he sent Jesus to us? This indicates that Jesus is a prophet. Infact, the whole way the Bible addresses God and Jesus shows that they are seperate entities.

Moreover, "Glorify me together with yourself" can equally refer to Jesus returning to God. It doesnt need to be after Jesus gives his life on the cross. It doesnt say that. It merely says that Jesus is praying to be reunited with God.

Originally Posted by uabimmer
You also mention that Jesus is not the Son of God?
Luke 3:22 "And the Hly Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heave which said, "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased"
Thanks again bro. However, did you know that in places of the Bible, the title "Son of God" was inserted later? the NIV bible must really be commended for removing the phrase from some places. Also, the NIV Bible has had to remove other verse because they were discovered to be later additions/fabrications. This is hugely significant.

Also, did you know "Son of God" in Hebrew can also mean "Servant of God"? Even Adam (AS) in the Bible has been called "Son of God". Infact, the phrase "Son of God" has been used to address a lot of people.

Did you know that the Torah has even been called the "daughter of God"?

In the Hebrew Bible Israel is both a man (Jacob, the son of Isaac) and the nation that descended from him.

Because of the shared name and organic identity, God speaks to the nation as though he were a single person. Israel is, in fact, God's son (Exod 4:22 — beni vechori yisrael; Deut 14:1 — banim atem l'Adonai; Jer 31:9 — ki hayiti le'yisrael le'av; Hosea 11:1 — mimitzrayim qarati livni).

Israel's Father nurtures him to grow up and become a worshiping servant (Exod 4:23 — "Let my son go that he may serve me").

Also, did you know that in the KJV it calls Jesus the "Son of God" but then in the New KJV, it calls him the "*****t of God"? I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this. Infact here's a whole article about it:

Edit: I'll add more here later

Now, let's look at it from this perspective. If God loved the world so much that he decided to put himself in human form, this would mean:

That God "came" to the Earth. The Bible tells us that God "sent" Jesus.

That God can split himself into more parts and each part would be equal. However, Jesus says in the Bible: "The father is greater than I" John 14:28.

That the "son" or "part" of him would share the same nature. Therefore, if God cannot die, how did Jesus die on the cross in ANY sense of the word?

Here's another question: If Jesus is God, who did he worship?

Also, people sometimes ask "If God is all-powerfull, why can't he have a son? or put himself in human form?" However, I feel this is quite inappropriate because I could then ask "why not a daughter? why not animal form?". Another, question I could ask is "could God make a rock so heavy that even he cant move it?" or "could God tell a lie?" Do you see how illogical these questions are?

The differences between man and God are so extreme that we cannot say God put himself in human form. Look:

God is infinite. Man in finite.
God is the creator. Man is the creation.
God is immortal. Man is mortal.
God has no requirements. Man has many requirements i.e food, clothing, shelter...
God is not forgetfull. Man is forgetfull.
God doesnt sleep. Man requires sleep.
God cannot make mistakes. Man makes mistakes.
God can do everything. Man is limited in abilities.

I cant think of more right now. But I'm sure you can see the problems with saying that Jesus is the son of God....again with respect...

Last edited by hks786; 08-21-2007 at 04:38 PM.