Thread: SC confused !
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      11-06-2012, 02:23 PM   #328
E46 + E90

Drives: E46 M3 + E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Illinois

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2009 BMW M3  [0.00]
2002 BMW M3  [0.00]
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
Not sure where you come up with your data Sal but like usual it is extreamly flawed. Filter placement makes 0 difference on our kit outside of heat. We have tested filter placement during development of our kit, with or without or mounted directly behind the blower and it made no difference in efficiency. Final placement had to do with access to fresh air. Your comment on swapping cooling cores is at best laughable. Our aftercooler core is an original Garrett core designed for 1000 HP. The front mount heat exchanger is a OEM Porsche heat exchanger. Intercooler pump is the same you will find in a Mercedes 55 AMG.

For someone who is selling his first supercharger system and someone who did not engineer the kit he is selling you sure come across like an expert on FI. Any R&D and testing you claim to have done on your kit was done by TTS. You and I both know this. Im not sure why you continue to pretend that you engineered the kit you are selling I would stick to reselling stuff others develop for you with your added mark up and spend less time trying to talk down about other vendors products who happen to do their own development and R&D.
Roman, please understand that I have a huge respect for what ESS Tuning has accomplished over the many years, especially recently with the E9X M3 Supercharger Market. There is no denying that your product in the skilled hands of many members here today, have achieved great results in both the form of acceleration time records and reliability. You can ask any of the more active M3Post and ESS Tuning clients, I often times send them PMs, emails, or write in their threads often times congratulating and sharing how impressed I am with the data and results they share.

This post of yours is a bit disappointing though. You just stated that others shouldn't "talk down about other vendors," yet you are doing the same thing. I only quickly read through this long thread, but my understanding is that, Sal@Evolve is trying to show that the Rotrex C38-91 can flow just as well as the Vortech V3Si despite many others saying it can't. My understanding is that he is just trying to share facts based off his own research and data collection on their supercharger kit. It's a simple comparison of different setup and different blower choice, maybe not necessarily an attack against you, AA, VFE, Gintani, or GPower.

Also claiming that Evolve Automotive doesn't do their own R&D or testing is purely ludicrous! Evolve Automotive is one of the very few companies and tuners that I know of that constantly post about their own R&D. They share their data logs, many photos, CAD designs, and dynos. This is consistent not just on Bimmerpost, but on all the other big BMW forums. Time and time again, they present the type of development they do in house. They also share about the companies that they out source to for different pieces of their overhaul product.

I know that you and many automotive enthusiasts speak highly of the ESS product, but seeing unethical and poor-taste posts such as this really does not help carry a proper image of ESS Tuning. If ever, it can leave a bad taste in people's mouths. I hate to say this, but I have heard of people choosing different companies because they were not impressed with how sometimes ESS Tuning would publicly present themselves. I know these are probably only a small sample size compared to your actual client based, but it does happen. Honestly, I am sure it happens to every company in any industry in one way or another. I just assume that as being the public image of a business, it is best to practice in such a way to reduce any such unfortunate situations.

From my outside perspective, I think you may also be misunderstanding what Sal@Evolve was trying to state in Post #309. I read that post several times and I think what he is trying to say is that if someone were to change how ESS Tuning designed their kit, then the efficiency can drop! Which I think you would agree upon. I personally don't see this as an attack towards you or ESS Tuning.

Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
Just a quick example - put the air filter at the back of an ESS kit and leave it open. Watch how the efficiency of the setup (not the Vortech) just takes a nose dive.
My interpretation of this post is that Sal is saying that if someone moved the placement of the air filter from ESS originally placed it to the back of the supercharger or left it open, then the efficiency would drop. Looking at it from a different prospective, Sal is stating that ESS chose a more suitable location compared to other possibilities. I think the efficiency of the kit that Sal brings up is similar to your claims about controlling heat.

The following quotes from your past posts I believe supports this:

Original Thread Link:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
For a supercharger system to make the most power it can it first needs to have access the lowest IAT possible. The best source of cool air is the front of the vehicle away from the heat of the engine bay. The decision to run our air intake system in the location we did was based on function not style. The filter we use is large and when placed correctly draws air in from above, below and in the middle of the drivers side air duct. If the air duct was covered for some reason by a block of snow or a small wild animal the filter would still have access to air. The K&N filter can be exposed to moisture without issue and with the optional water resistant filter wrap there is no need to worry about running the vehicle in regions with a high annual rainfall. We have used this same design on our E46 M3 applications for years with no issues.
Original Thread Link:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
Our intake system is designed to access air from outside the engine bay. Any attempt to pull air in from the engine bay via open filter or by a filter enclosed in a box behind the blower will almost always result in higher air intake temps as this air has been heated by the engine and the headers located directly below. It is possible to locate an intake in the engine bay but if you have the option to access cooler air direct from the front of the car we feel it is always a better option.

The intake filter has to be large to meet the CFM requirements of the system, this requires exact placement of the filter during installation as space is limited. When placing the filter it is ok to have a portion of it below the air duct as this area is enclosed within the front bumper cover when re-installed. We have been recently working to supply a modified air duct that will allow customers to retain the original. We will continue to modify the design of this part so that DIY installations require less effort.
Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
Take the ESS kit and change the charge cooler core a really poor one with a high pressure and high heat rejection - you see the efficiency drop. Less boost and even less HP.
Here, I think Sal is trying say that if someone were to replace the Garret core and OEM Porsche heat exchanger for an even cheaper and poorly made variation, then the efficiency of your kit would go down again. I don't see this as Sal talking poorly of ESS, but more so saying that their decisions to outsource their parts from Garret and OEM Porsche is a sound decision!


Overall, what I am trying to say is that the constant attacks that I see in this forum towards any company are really just unnecessary. People should just let the products speak for themselves. What I appreciate a lot about ESS Tuning and Evolve Automotive is that they all try to share factual information when they can. In this specific thread, Evolve Automotive posted very candid information on their own R&D and attempts at trying different blowers. I believe this was probably brought up because of the debate between different blower types. I like how there are many threads posted by respectable members displaying their great performance achievements and data logging! Everyone should let fact, research, and data logging take their own course of interpretation on the forum. No need to add snide comments, insults, or potentially false accusations.

The informative and factual types of posts that make visiting the forums enjoyable and educational. The posts that carry a negative tone of insulting other companies is really unnecessary, unethical, and in no way constructive. There will always be rumors, allegations, and misinformation, but I think the responsibility of Forum Sponsors and Vendors is to lead by positive example. This is the for sake of proper business practice and just pure positive enthusiasm for the car culture.


So, what about Albanian Women?
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