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      10-03-2012, 04:28 PM   #40
Sal@Evolve
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Drives: Slow
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Luton, Bedfordshire

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Just adding a little info here on charge cooling with strict respect to the F10 M5.

The cooling abilities of this setup on this car are pathetic to say the least. We extensively road and dyno tested the first F10 in the country. The power drops very much after just one pull. In addition to that you can feel the fall off in power on the road after just two or three 3rd gear pulls.

If anyone cares to speak to just one OEM engineer you will get one response - its done for cost reasons and packaging. Also, OEM like to run the engines hotter now as it gives better emissions. You will see this also on older models.

Charge coolers on the whole are not a bad solution with respect to packaging. Our own supercharger kit was going to be based on a very elaborate charge cooler setup with twin cores which were very deep and wide. However, the results with respect to consistent power using various cores and even a remote system showed to be inferior to a well designed intercooler core with correctly flowed end tanks.

Bare in mind that we are not talking about comparing state of the art charge coolers to some crappy intercooler core. We are talking about comparing state of the art charge coolers to state of the art intercoolers such as HS Marstons and cores very similar to it.

Kit comparison cannot be just done on a dyno for a few glory pulls. Anyone can let the inlet temps get just above ambient and do a run. Even a mediocre charge cooler / intercooler will suppress a temperature rise for just one run.

Kit comparison is really carried out in real world conditions.

Any decent tuner will know how temperature sensitive the S65 is especially when bolting on a blower! Not only is temperature suppression a key element in a setup but also how quickly the system recovers once under load for sustained periods of time. Recovery rates and temperature are hardly ever discussed on these forums as this requires us to go to the next level of understanding. It seems 'peak hp' is the only important thing these days and dyno's do all the selling.

Intercooler placement and boost pipe / tract length - A good core will actually not require a huge amount of air to pass over it to be efficient. How quickly the heat is dissipated also played a large role. Of course I expect every one of the tuners from their vast experience and actual real world testing to appreciate that the frontal section of the E9x actually pulls air in from the front so essentially any charge cooler heat exchanger or intercooler will have air dragged out from behind it at quite some velocity irrespective of it being behind the bumper.
I am sure comments about blocking the coolant radiator could have been mentioned and again the core type plays a vital role here. Some cores (HS Marstons) actually accelerate the air as it passes over over the intercooler fins!

Some of the comparisons made are very good between the kits but I think it would be much more fair to compare all kits to each other rather than pin point one particular kit.

There is enough information on the VF kit for example. What about the monster G Power kits with their incredible mid range power?

What ever the intention of this thread is, I am going to ignore all negativity and even remote accusations. Let's see if this forum has enough class to rise above the previous nonsense and actually put out unbiased and helpful information.

Put the bashing and hate to one side, let's forget the sales and just for once give a thought to the people who used to enjoy coming onto this forum and enjoying being what we all hopefully are....hardcore BMW enthusiasts!

Time for me to go out for a near midnight drive in the white hammer
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