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      09-05-2012, 07:52 PM   #44
Lieutenant Colonel

Drives: bac mono
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: racetrack

iTrader: (3)

Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I agree that balancing a car near the limits with plenty of slip angle is a delightful experience

However I am not sure I am on board with your entire statement.

From my understanding, the limit of adhesion is not a clear cut black and white thing. Tires need to slip to generate grip, hence the harder you push the more slip you will have. There is no hard limit per say, only increased slip. Even as you feel the tires are sliding away, the still are generating lateral force.

Further, I don't believe that there is a single car out there that is perfectly neutral in every driving condition. Hence, you will never be at the "limit" (read same slip angle) of the front and rear tires simultaneously in every condition.
With every tire there is an optimum slip angle with produces maximum grip. Before and after this "peak" grip falls off. With slicks that peak is really sharp with the greater angle falling off really fast. What I'm describing is loading both outside front and rears right at the peak - that is the fastest you'll ever go in a corner. Loading both is not so much the "perfectly netural setup" but rather how you drive the car. With any car anywhere near close to neutral a skillful driver can load front and rears evening - trust me, I've worked up to this point. I take student's cars to this limit all the time. (there are lots of little advanced tips I can tell you but thats beyond the scope of this thread)

It is at this point, where you are at peak grip (optimum slip angle) that the car is basically at it "limit." The limit of the fastest you'll go around a corner. It is at this limit that tiny tiny changes in power will cause your car to exit the corner less than optimal (over/under steer) requiring correction. And if you're on slicks the tiniest big of power change can throw you into a wild goose chase after your wheel.

hehe I like describing these experiences

bottom line. I don't shift mid-corner if I'm driving race pace. If I can actually shift mid corner (even though the shift is very very fast) then I'm leaving more on the table and need to go faster through the corner lol