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      05-13-2012, 12:18 PM   #446

Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

iTrader: (0)

I think you can better judge the Toyobaru's merits through a small Advevo's quotes compilation about his views on cars. All we know is that he owns now not one but two 1Ms... the rest is history:

I drove both standard i still pick an 135i over a m3 e92 anyday.

135i is much agiler to drives it gives much more a smile on my face.

M3 was in early days motorsport. Now M stands for marketing.

M3 has more status than an 135i. But he fu.. status i am a driver.
Yes i go to a m3 e46 to a 135i msport but sold the 135i again and went for E90 M3.

Can t get used to turbo. Throttle response is insane on m3 and 8400 sets youre hair on fire. Incredable engine. No turbo can give you the sensation of 8400 rpm and throttle response.
I would like to see a 3.0 6 cil with 320 hp in M hatchback. With more than 8000 rpm on tap. I rather see that than a turbo.

Throttle response is so much better from an atmo engine.
that s turbo.

I drove M3 sedan yesterday. Thats throttle response.

Atmo engines are still the best at the throttle response.
I want NA high rev engine. New 3.0 alu mag engine with about 320hp is more than enough for me if the the car is lightweight.
I once test drive a 997 GT3. If you can not afford one never test drive one. You can throw every other car in the sea. This car is soo damn good. When i drove i one i could not afford one. I had an e46 m3. I instantly sold my m3 i could not enjoy a car at that price anymore. I drove the new M3 also the e90 and e92 are shitty cars compared to a 997 GT3. So as long i can t afford a porsche i won t spend big money on cars and be happy with the cheaper 1 series.

997 GT3 the best driver car atm. A friend of mine has a 599 ferrari i rather buy two 997 GT3 instead of one 599. That good is a 997 gt3 as a drivers car.

So all the stories of the e90 and e92 you can forget. It just a bmw with an M marketing badge which is a heavy bitch for to much money.
I have driven the e92 m3 too. But i have much more fun in a 135i that s why i bought one.

135i is much more nimble than the larger M3.

///M stands for ///Marketing not for Motorsport anymore.

Only the M engine is Motorsport that s about it.
Call it an M1 if it s really an M1 an AG turbo has nothing to do with proper ///M engines. So no worthy ///M badge on the boot then. If the engine is ///M build and runs 8400 rpm minimum YES PUT A BIG FAT ///M ON THE BOOT

An X5///M and X6///M are no real ///M cars it s AG car with some ///M badges. I hope it doesn t goes the same way for the M1.
I have an M3 E90 i only have it because of the 8400 rpm engine. It s a piece of art. But for me the 3 series has grown to much. It s to big and heavy. I would like a smaller ///M1 love it. Only concern is the engine. If it s turbo and if does not have the throttle response like my M3 E90 and CSL i quess my E90 M3 and CSL stays a bit longer.
throttle response like my M3 (thats off and on throttle)

Reliability like an e92 V8 atmo ///M engine. (That means i can drive all day on track without overheating and other problems)

if it lacks these 2 i don t even care for a test drive.
using the 135i engine is the easy making money way. If i spend ///M money i want something special engine wise. Like 360hp out of 3.2 engine with a carbon airbox. No it s not as fast as 135i 400 hp turbo engine. But that 3.2 is a piece of art. A 135i or any other turbo will never be one. Same goes for the X5 M and X6 M

Then the other thing.

Try the balance a turbo on under and oversteer with the throttle. Try that you proberly end up in the hedges. Turbo s are nice on 4wd rally cars. They don t belong in RWD car with a LSD on. You need a more liniear throttle response.

I want to spend lots money on ///M cars but if can t play with the throttle to balance the car i won t spend one dollar/euro on it.

Pedal to metal on the straight brigades i am not a member of. There more than enough manufactures who build those high power high nm turbo torque cars. I rather see 9000 rpm and sound to die for. Engine like a piece of art.

E30 dtm airbox
M3 3.0
M3 3.2
M3 CSL airbox
M3 V8 with 8400 rpm. Mount an airbox you will get crazy.

I don t care if people overtake me with turbo engine in my high ///M engines. You get used to torque. You never get bored listen to high rev engines.
i had a 135i sold it after driving ///M3 E90.

Turbo lag is killing me. As long as they have not find a solution to turbo lag en get a throttle response like an atmo engine i don t want turbo ever again.

If bmw does n t make atmo anymore i buy myself a GT3.
Atmo all the way.

turbo are laggy
turbo break down more easily
turbo goes more often in limp mode.
turbo overheats faster.

with the 128 you can drive all day on track without manny engine problems try that with a 135i. Temp is rising like crazy with the turbo cars.
i have had an 135i sold it after 3 months fed up with the turbo lag en limp mode on track.

I now have an M3 E90 fantastic machine. Throttle respons just awesome never saw that in a turbo engine.

Bring on M 4 cil turbo with 300hp no problem but

throttle response like atmo ///M
Can drive all day on track without limp mode and heating problems.
No turbo failures
No turbo lag.

If they can manage that in a one series ///M hatch or coupe with a weight of 1200kg. I am going for a test drive.
We need a 3.0 atmo with 8000 rpm and 300hp min on tab an a car weigh about 1250kg in a 3 doors hatchback.

Those 1.3 turbo are nice for my grandma to get the grocery s.
qoute from scott

The initial idea for the M2 began with the outgoing engines that had featured in the M3 and Z4M being rebuilt with am magnesium block to offset some weight, The uprated engine found in the M3 CSL was also tested, The problem was that no matter what BMW had done to lighten the front of the car it still proved to be insufficient and felt noseheavy The car was proving difficult to compare with the developing 135i eventually they axed the programme settling for the 135i to cope with demand.

That s a strange sentence if i read it again.

That means a magnesium 6 cil is to nose heavy and 135i with turbo and hoses and intercooler is lighter and better for use in a 1 series ///M. I know for sure a 6 cil alu/mag engine is lighter than a 6 cil biturbo that s for sure.

I have had and still have a 130i street and racecar and i have also owned a 135i i can tell you the 135i is far more nose heavy than the 130i with alu magnesium engine.

The choice ///M has for this car is either the alu magnesium high rev 6 cilinder or a 4 cil turbo. I can tell you a 6 cil turbo with all the extra hoses and intercoolers is far to nose heavy for good cornering. The 135i is worse in cornering than a 130i so why on earth should bmw ///M put in a heavier 6 cil turbo.
You can drift turbo cars it s done for ages.

But what is so nice at atmo engine that s the linear power delivery. I can set the back out 5 inches with throttle if i want and if i want 10 inches it s no problem at all adjust a little throtte and you get it instantly. Now with turbo you can t adjust it that precisely if do it it s mostly to much or it s to late etc.

So you never can put the back end out exactly how you want it with turbo. That s why the highrev ///M engine are so fantastic on track that s why you see porsche cup cars are always highrev engines. Because highrev is simply the best for extreme driving on corners it s so well controlleable.

But if you want youre engine tuned up turbo is nice but then the lag is getting even worse.
It s not funny it s serious.

I buy ///M because of it s Motorsport heritage. If i would buy a ///M car for hp and NM that would be stupid. There are far more manufacters that offer cheaper and a lot of hp an nm for less money.

///M was always something special for motorsport enthusiasts guys who bring there cars to the track. Now with turbo it s nothing special anymore.

This is a nice quote.

If you can only put youre foot on the gas when the car is straight is no driving fun for me. (This is the way how most the turbo cars needs to be driven.)
yes i go on with the progress.

Is the letter ///M Motorsport or what. I have raced all my life. And turbo engines are pain in the ass on track.

Why do you think we have porsche carrera cup, GT3 cup and not Porsche GT2 cup. Go drive on track on the limit and you know it.

Most of the guys talking about turbo s and torque are highway burners. Higway burners you can buy at almost every corner of the street. Well balanced chassis with atmo engines wich can be perfectly controlled with throttle in corners (yes corners guys not straights) is a piece of art. And worth the ///M money which has to be paid for it.

If you want highway burners buy a modded 135i

It has totally no use if the M1 gets a 6 cil turbo if you looking for ///M motorsport in a car. That means corners yes corners.
The idea of a turbo 6 cil is stupid for a ///M1

Why because we have an 135i already with chip 326hp. So if people want turbo s buy a 135i. What s the point of bringing a ///M1 turbo.

The M1 should be an atmo with 345hp. A drivers ///M car should always be an atmo.

Turbo ///M are good for the big cruise ships like M5 M3 and X5 X6M. A drivers car like the 1 series deserves only one engine and that is a high rev atmo engine with 345hp. Everything else is only made to make easy money. The 135i was enough then.

I am comming from a E90 M3 and have a csl. But you have to admit bmw does not make drivers cars anymore even the upcomming M1 that wil weight about 1500kg. That s insane for such a small car. I was also so bored with my E90 M3. It s so heavy you feel it in cornering the front and rear tires when driven hard are gone in notime because of the weight.

It s all green agenda and luxery at ///M. For a daily drive an M1 is nice. But ///M gave you a special feeling in early days when buying. I know when i was a kid drooling over a E36 M3 GT. Last car at bmw i was drooling over was the M3 CSL. The new GTS at 1490kg and M1 at 1500kg with turbo is not were i am in search for. It s a big shame. Because i am a big bmw fan. The CSL is an awesome machine and give you the feel you drive something special.
1500kg is a heavy bitch for such a small car.

Like pointed out before weight is the biggest enemy and fun killer. I have sold my E90 M3 because of it.
Nelson piquet once said when he drove the bmw turbo F1.

If you wanted to stay on the track you could only give throttle on the straights.

Now that s fun.

A turbo car rwd with a limited slip diff is never as nice to control midcorner than NA high rev engine with inmediate throttle response. If you don t know the difference you better can buy a drag race car.
guibo fantastic write up.

You can try every turbo you want. But midcorner off throttle and on throttle is laggy with every turbo even ferrari or porsche turbo doesn t matter. That spoils my fun in driving. I would not spend premium money on such car. Turbo s are nice in diesel and daily drives. Cars for fun needs to be NA great throttle response and give emotion.

I am a big ///M enthusiast but not turbo s if the M1 is turbo i am 100% not buying it. Car would give me zero driving emotion. I rather pay a lot more and buy myself a GT3. That s a car which give you throttle response that s a car which give emotion. Bmw could build one out of a 1 series. But the bmw ag board would proberly not aprove because it is not green enough.

I had it with bmw green agenda. It s about time they bring a new 6 cil high rpm///M engine with 8500 rpm NA.
I think not.

A 1 M will never get the race heritage like the E30 M3. And ///M is looking away from real motorsport engines.

So what has a 6cil turbo to do with a 380hp 4cil M3 E30 at more than 9000 rpm.

So in my opinion a turbo M1 is as far from motorsport as a cow which is sitting at the table eating a nice hot meal.
Segler talks about low weight and throttle response.

If this thing weight above 1400kg than it s all a bunch of marketing b.llsh.t. talk overthere.

The car looks is fantastic.
They should use a 3.0 alu mag engine and pump out 320hp with 8500 rpm on tap. That s a thru motorsports engine. That s like a swiss watch.

What we get is a Casio with a price tag on it from a rolex.

I have done that route also. Bought a gt3 mk2 after my e90 m3. Porsche atmo s are pure porn.

This 1 series M is nice for a daily drifter and some sideways shopping for driving on track all day you can better take the GT3.
Way i need a daily drifter next to the GT3.

GT3 can t take all speedbumps

I won t sell a GT3 for it though. High rev engines are the best.
Perfect post. So thru.

I have had an M3 sold it because of all those aspects. Waiting for the 1M. Pity its a turbo though but the car size is perfect.
I have also a 997 MK2 GT3. I want de 1M next to it as my daily drive/and driftfun. I have had a E90 M3. It is a to big car to toss around in the twisty s. I like the size of the 1M a lot more. As a family car i rather buy me a X3 or X5.

So poor mans M3 doesn t count for me. It s the best M car in the line up right now. The AG Turbo engine is a bit of let down. But everything else is fine.

Turbo is ok if the price is low too. Every car maker can make turbo s so that s nothing special to begin with. If the asking price is low then turbo is ok. For a racing engine like the CSL bmw bmw can ask a higher price. I would never pay premium for a turbo engine. Every jap manufacturer has one.

My conclusion is: if you value what a driver's car really is and want to stay true to yourself you have no choice but to buy a Toyobaru for the 'price of a casio'!

Last edited by GoingTooFast; 05-13-2012 at 02:06 PM.