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      07-14-2007, 06:16 PM   #61
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Thatís what I donít understand. It should still be required. It is impure for people to not be circumcised. Men havenít changed physically in any way, so it should still be required.

I've already shown you references in the Bible where it is written that circumcision is only a symbol, not anything of real meaning. The covenant lies within our hearts, not on our foreskin. It's clearly written in Genesis 17 and Paul writes it again in Romans 4. Abraham was declared righteous before the Lord gave him the covenant. Therefore, righteousness was determined before circumcision was even imagined. Yes, it was required in the Old Testament. It was a way to SHOW to covenant. To be branded by God. So why is it not required in the New Testament? Because they like dirty bodies? No. Circumcision, as I stated, was a symbol. What's the new symbol? Jesus Christ. Jesus is the new covenant.

Is it a good idea to be circumcised? Yes. Is it ok if you're not? Yes!! Will you have a chance at heaven if you're not circumcised? Of course!... but why?
What is the only requirement to be saved? Believe in Jesus Christ. Not believe and be circumcised.

No matter how hard you try, your body is always going to be dirty. You can take 20 showers a day, and still be covered in bacteria. Thats what our bodies are for- to protect the inside from what's outside.

Look, we can go back and forth on this all day long- The point I want to make to you is, the Old Testament law is no longer in affect because Jesus Christ came, died for us, was resurrected, and confirmed everything He did on earth to show us He is the one true Son of God. Jesus showed us that He saves- not the law. He touched the unclean and made them clean. He (Jew) interacted with gentile. Who knows, maybe He did cut His beard. But He taught that only He saves, not the law. Circumcision is no longer required by God, sacrifices are no longer required by God, hair cutting or not cutting is no longer required by God. What is required is that you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and trust in Him as your Lord and Savior over your life.

He said: ďI wash my feet 5 times daily, therefore my feet are cleaner than your faceĒ.
Thats humorous, but what does this have to do with salvation? I'm glad that at that point his feet are clean, but as soon as he steps down, they're filthy. The bacteria on the bathroom floor of an airplane are far worse than anything thats in the air touching her face. How does washing your feet in a bathroom forgive you for sins? The people of Jesus' time were absolutely filthy from all the dust, not to mention the fact that they rarely bathed. Yet, the Bible says that they saw and heard Jesus and believed and they were saved. It didn't mention how dirty they were. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the man with the clean body is going to heaven, but the guy with dirt on his feet and hands is damned. What's within your heart is what matters. The Lord looks at the heart- not the clothes you wear, not the car you drive, not the house you live in, not the grades you make, not the job you have.

So why did Jesus need to die if this goat didnít have to die? Moreover, the goat took away the sins of the people at that time.

The goat did have to die. Old Testament sacrifice is all over the Bible.

After the flood Noah sacrifices animals to God. Burnt offerings. Fire. Dead. (Genesis 8:20)

After the Lord stopped Abraham from sacrificing his son Isaac, Abraham sacrificed a ram instead in place of Isaac. He sacrificed it as a burnt offering. Fire. Dead. (Genesis 22:13)

In Leviticus, God told Moses how to perform a sacrifice that is pleasurable to Him. Leviticus 4:4 explains how the priest is to perform a sacrifice if he sins, bringing guilt on the people. He is to slaughter a young bull before the Lord, and then spread the blood and sprinkle it before the Lord. Check it out, its pretty graphic. I don't think the bull got to run off into the woods and carry the sin with it. It died.


>>Now, why did it have to die?<<
One reason, and one reason only.

"For the wages of sin is death" Romans 6:23

It doesn't say, the wages of sin is losing a goat in the woods, or cutting off your foreskin or washing your feet. It says death. What is due because of your sin? Death. How can you repay your debt to sin? Death. One way.

>>>Enter Jesus<<< But why would God send his own son?

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." John 3:16-18

Jesus was our sacrificial lamb. For everyone? No. Only for those who believe in him.
Therefore, if you believe in Jesus what are your wages for your sin? Nothing- you are no longer condemned because Jesus picked up your tab.
If you do not believe in Jesus, how to you repay your sin? Death.

So by saying that Jesus is the FINAL sacrifice that means that he PERMANENTLY takes away the sins of the people and no other sacrifice is needed. But we can see that Men keep sinning and Christians say that they should not sinÖ

Read the book of James. Its really really short, and even if you don't believe in God, its still applicable because it talks alot about being a good person. James (son of Mary and Joseph, Jesus' parents... so, somewhat Jesus' brother) points out a very good observation.

"Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do." (James 2:18)

Like I said two days ago, I WANT to live a good life (not sin) because I want to
1. Glorify God with what I do
2. Show others that I belong to Jesus Christ by setting myself apart from the crowd (not sin).

Ok, take faith out of it. Lets just go by morals here. Is it morally right for someone to kill, lie, cheat, steal, or commit adultry? Any moral person would say no. Those things are sins (obviously) so its morally 'good' to not sin. Name a sin that is morally acceptable.

But we cannot forget our purpose on this earth is to remain pure in every way. Men are created in a certain way; if something is not good for them then they should refrain from it. Also, your actions reflect the person you become, and we Muslims believe that we will be judged for our actions on this Earth.


You just answered the last question for me.

"You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone." James 2:24

"As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do. For it is written, 'Be holy, because I am holy.'[Leviticus 11:45]" 1 Peter 1:14-16
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