Originally Posted by krnboy817
i think the bad rep the volt is getting is and are from where the car stands at the momentin the market. although someone has to push the envelope at some point for tech to grow, but the vehicle is still yet a mere inconvenience since there are no charge stations available like a gas station. plus, you still use gas engine as range extender so in reality it feels like you would be just as good as running a small displacement engine or even a NEW diesel engine.
for me personally, the gripe is about being "green" or "efficient" perception that this car gives to the public and has wrapped it self with. yes, anyone can advertise anything in anyway, but is the perception also the reality it unfolds? i beg to differ because you're burning fossil fuel to...
1) Lithium ion production
2) battery production
3) freight/shipping battery(s)
4) energizing the new manufacturing process
5) you still pump gas.
6) battery replacement... and the process it takes to trash it.
if 40+ mpg and decent handling is what is enough to justify this car for someone and gives a valuable reason to be built, then i would say why not a give an early to mid 90s civic a try? plus, one costs over $38k and one costs less than $10k, but if a styling and the looks is a factor then i rest my case (but i doubt its the style and the looks).
second is the tax credit voucher, why not give the price a break instead? im sure some dealers are by taking your voucher, but im sure tax credit means, in a single fiscal year, you would have to earn or make enough and pay taxes over the amount which that would qualify for the return. simply, 3500 credit doesn't mean 3500 cash from IRS.
lastly the price point this car put it self at brings not only prius as its competition, but every other car in that range which includes BMW, AUDI, ACURA, HONDA, MB, HYUNDAI, MAZDA etc... etc... so with most consumers trying to push their $ to the limit these days, it needs to offer more (value and not just bit higher mpg) or be more (much more) affordable, heck a base F30 328i gets 38mpg now days. oh and how long would it take for one to offset the price difference of the car with the money they save at the pump? 10yrs? 20yrs? perhaps longer since the 40mpg is the new 30 mpg pretty much across the board. either way its pointless calculation since average U.S. consumers flip their cars with in 5 yrs of ownership.
just thought i share my thoughts.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. You have some good points and we can debate them as some have no answer as they point to future issues that have time on their side for technology to solve.
But my reasoning for considering a volt is purely on gas savings for my daily 160 mile commute. I'm not a greenie by any consideration (look at some of my posts regarding the carbon fiber 7-series thread); and I also own a Hummer H3T. I spend X dollars a month on fuel. The Volt would almost give me half my trip back using no gasoline and only an estimated $3.00 to travel 70 miles of it, with 90 miles commuting at approximately 37 MPG, which is 10 MPG better than my E90 gets on average (and I've kept strict fuel consumption records on every tank of gas since mile 3 so I know I get an average 27 MPG). This of course means charging the Volt at work during the day, which is something I need to discuss with my company. I can install the 240V charger at home myself. However claiming the new F30 328i gets 38 MPG is a bit of a stretch. Yes, I’m sure one could get better than the 36 MPG highway rating in some perfect conditions (weather, traffic, and terrain), but for my commute, I’d might expect an average of 30 MPG. I’ve not really seen where turbo engines get really much better fuel consumption in real-world driving situations.
One of the concerns I have is something you brought up which was battery replacement. This issue has kept me away from considering other hybrids (I've considered them since the original Honda Insight came to market in 1999) such as the Ford Fusion, which is also an excellent car as I found when I test drove it in 2009. But I've been studying the issue of battery replacement. It appears the batteries rarely fail and not need replacement over the operating life of the vehicle. From studies I read on the SAE website, in one instance Ford, who is long-term, real-world testing their hybrid drive system in taxi cabs in San Francisco has only one (1) battery cell go bad in something like 10,000 cells in use in a combine million mile use (I forget the exact details, but it is on the order of that magnitude). I know a few people with long-term Prius (Prium?) who have had no battery failures; one is a 1st gen Prius with just over 100,000 miles on it. So the concern over premature battery replacement has become less of a concern on my part.
A new Volt is far better in comfort and reliability than an early ‘90s civic (that would have close to 200,000 miles on it assuming it was driven an average of 10,000 miles a year); and where would I get one with sub 5,000 miles to use as fresh a long-term daily commuter. I’d rather just run the wheels off my E90; it’s already a worthless used car with 167K on the clock.
I think the best takeaway here is, discovering the Volt is really worth consideration as a car for a lot of people. If it is true most drivers drive less than 70 miles a day, the Volt fills the bill as an electric-only vehicle, and can work quite well as an ICE-powered car when needed.