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      01-07-2012, 03:07 PM   #74

Drives: e92 m3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: armpit of the USA

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Originally Posted by gthal View Post
Ok, now I need to use the dreaded "fanboy" term

Having a 400 ft/lbs torque M3 would NOT make it just another C63. Who said it couldn't still be a screamer? Also, presuming that the "character" of the M3 is somehow more special than other cars screams bias. Sure, the character may be something you like but who is to say the general population agree. There are lots of "special" cars out there with different character to the M3. Special is in the eye of the beholder.

To say the sales of an M3 with more torque would drop as the car somehow would become less special is wrong IMO. 95% of the buying public absolutlely like torque and don't give a rats ass about the "special" character of the M3. My guess is it would get even better reviews (if that's possible) and have higher sales. You forget that the group of hardcore, traditionalist M3 buyers is tiny compared to those buying M3s. The next gen M3 will have a VERY different character than the current and past M3s and I bet (economy aside) it will outsell the current generation in spite of the traditionalists (who represent a small, small portion of the M3 buying public) screaming murder.

Anyway, saying that more torque in the M3 would make if have less character and would be bad shouts bias and fanboyism. I can (and do) understand how many people would prefer the current M3 to other cars like the C63 but I saying that if you added more torque to the M3 it becomes less appealing is... well... silly I stand by my opinion that 98% of us would choose and M3 with more torque all else being equal. Wanting a car with lower torque may be true for a very, very, very small portion of M3 owners who are diehard traditionalists and for many of those folks, the E46 M3 is probably the better choice anyway (E92 is too soft). Remember when a V8 was considered blasphemy for the M3 because it was not in the "character" of the M3... well, it's funny how forward progress made most of the naysayers forgot all about their V8 concerns.

Anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. We are all allowed to have our own opinion (even if mine is right j/k).
Problem with this logic is you really never can have your cake and eat it to so to speak. If you wanted the m3 to have 400 foot pounds of torque for example you would need to increase displacement by quite a bit and it would still be very hard to keep the power deliver to 8400 redline if not impossible without a huge engine. Increasing the displacement to that degree means its likely the stroke will be too long to handle revving to 8400 as well as it is just not possible to get low end torque and peak power at the top of the redline. You just cannot build those two characteristics into an engine.

With future development in tri-turbos and valvetronic it likely is more possible but for now it is not really the case. Ferrari does not tend to pick rather small displacements for their v8s for nothing and same goes with traditional M cars. They allow them to build the car for high rev horsepower.

Anyway I am just saying I agree that IF we had 400 foot pounds AND redline of 8400 with peak power at redline than sure it would be bliss but its really not possible.

I think this problem will be addressed with the new m3 and we will see how buyers react. I think it will not effect sales and if anything will improve them because more people do enjoy low end grunt.

I think I am in the minority because a ton of the enjoyment in daily driving the m3 is downshifting and upshifting to hear the lovely engine/intake and exhaust blipping and making noise. If we had a ton of torque than downshifting would be putting you outside the torque curve and you really would not get to enjoy the race-car like sounds of shifting in this car.

Both sound like great cars and both are great drivers but people just have to decide which characteristics they prefer. They are just different.