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      01-07-2012, 02:11 AM   #70
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Drives: py/kiwi e46 m3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: toronto

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but if the m3 comes with 400lb of tq, it will be just another c63 amg. you won't have the screaming character of the current m3 anymore.

porsche gt3 rs doesn't produce that much torque, f430, etc......m3 is similar in power delivery to these cars.

I'm willing to bet if bmw went the merc route with big displacement engine, sale number will plumet even harder.

Originally Posted by gthal View Post
I don't think Bruce is saying the M3 doesn't have sufficient torque. I read his post as if all things are otherwise equal, who would NOT choose more available torque throughout the rev range. Anyone who disputes that having more torque isn't a better feature on a car for DD duties isn't being honest or never experienced it (general comment not directed at you). That is NOT to say the M3 doesn't have lots because we all know it does. When I owned the M3 I was a defender of the car to those who said it was torque deficient because we all know it has lots of usable torque. Having more torque, however, makes the power more accessable and is a lot of fun in otherwise mundane daily commutes and this is not really debatable IMO. It doesn't necessarily make a car with more torque better as a DD as it is only one of a car's characteristics but it is a positive characteristic and having more torque available is always a better thing.

I would place a very large bet that anyone who drives a C63 for a week would fall in love with the power and torque of the engine... if they put aside their preconcieved bias, fanboyism, etc. That does not mean they would decide it was a better DD necessarily but they absolutely would understand and agree that accessible, significant and allows "on" torque was a hugely fun and very desirable characteristic and the M3 would be an even better DD than it is if it had more throughout the rev range. Arguing otherwise is just being defensive or not having experienced anything else. Again, this isn't a criticism of the M3 or saying it is necessarily lacking torque... it is saying a great car would be even better with more. Put another way... if BMW offered the M3 in 295 ft/lb and 400 ft/lb models for the same price (and otherwise the same car) no one would honestly take the 295 ft/lb model.

An M3 with a better exhaust (say the performance exhaust) and 400 ft.lbs of torque on tap would smoke a C63 coupe as a DD IMO because the cars are otherwise fairly similar but the M3 is a little lighter and nimble.