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      05-31-2007, 06:02 PM   #56
Major General
JEllis's Avatar

Drives: E36 M3, E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth

iTrader: (4)

The A5/S5 is based on the Nuvolari Concept car from a few years back. Way before the E92 was penned. Looks like BMW copied Audi.
Okay, the Bangle designed cars of today are all based on concepts like the Z9 which showed itself at the Paris Auto Show in 2000. The new 6 series and 3 series have design cues heavily routed in concepts like the Z9. A lot of car designs today look similar becuase the whole world is copying BMW, not the other way around.

People definetely get too carried away with the numbers--of all kinds. Someone was quoting track lap numbers in addition to the hp numbers earlier. What it boils down to is the "driving experience", and there is no way to quantify that. When I was shopping around for my '04 325ci, I remember test driving the 3 liter A4 and the 330ci, both with sports packages. Audi looked nice and all, but the minute it started moving--just pulling out the lot--I could feel a huge difference between how that car moved and how the 330ci moved. The difference was even more pronounced was I started pushing the cars around curves, etc. Almost none of us will race the cars we will be buying. We might track them, but even then, who cares about lap times. It still boils down to how nimble and communicative the car is, to the driving experience and how much fun you are having.

No, I have not driven the RS4, so one can say comparing a 3 liter A4 with the 330ci does not inform the M3 vs RS4/5 discussion. Well, I've driven other Audis and BMWs and I always seem to walk away with the same opinion. The car mags say the same thing. It is hard to imagine RS5 will be a different story. Audis are simply too heavy to begin with. And then there is all the suspension and chasis tuning, etc. But, who knows maybe Audi will prove me wrong...

And the AWD thing really doesn't matter to me even though I live in Boston. Yeah, it snows pretty hard 7-8 days in a year. But the thing is the next morning the roads are all cleared up, and, like most people, I don't live at the end of a dirt path. So, I get a ride from a co-worker who has winter tires on his civic on those 7-8 days, and I am fine with that. AWD is overrated for most urban dwellers.
Extremely well said! My slow underpowered E36 M3 puts a smile on my face everytime I drive it. I even plan on keeping it when my E92 M3 arrives. Driving experience is very subjective and I just dont think Audi has what it takes yet. Audi is making huge leaps forward but 55/45 is not 50/50 and everything else being equal, semi balanced AWD is nothing compared to balanced RWD.

I will say that Audi is for sure trying to dethrone the M3 but I dont think it will happen this generation. Cars have enough power now that upping another 100Hp can hurt a car as much as it can help. The difference between 400Hp and 500Hp is not the same as 200Hp and 300Hp. My point, driving experience, handling, and braking are going to start taking a front seat to power figures. Especially in a world where you can get Ferarri like performance from a Mitsu or Subie.
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