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      08-06-2011, 04:11 PM   #26
mact3333
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1. It is truly scary what you think will solve this mess...you KNOW job growth is the best way to get out of this mess and for the most part, I agree with you...but if you increase taxes the business owners will tighten their belt and wont hire just like they arent doing right now....lower taxes across the board for all will in the long run, create jobs...most people are hired by not fortune 500 co's but rather small business owners...it is this group we need to help...get rid of red tape, regulations, and high taxes for them...ask any small business owner and they will tell you the same thing.

2. you want higher revenues for the govt yet want higher taxes...in the "long" run, this will lower tax revenues..and please dont use that simplistic notion that Reagan and Clinton raised taxes and things were great argument because we are in a much different situation right now, things arent that simple.

3. so, since I am stating we need lower taxes for all, you will argue that the govt will shut down and etc given the initial lower tax revenues...well, this is the point that you keep ignoring and never address in your arguments...the govt MUST downsize...no ifs and buts there...they have to get smaller and entitlements need to decrease...this isnt about the rich getting theirs and the rest getting nothing, its about the sustainability of our govt cause if something doesnt change, this system will collapse soon.

And to think we could implement road projects and bridge work is a drop in the bucket...15-20% of the original stimulus bill was supposed to fund public projects but it took them 2 yrs to spend like 30% of it...the govt hired many people just to hire them and to make numbers look good and essentially told them to do nothing...these temp workers were let go and re-hired to make numbers look good..this has been clearly documented....when govt gets involved there will always be inefficiencies...business owners are effecient cause its their money on the line...with govt, it isnt their money, its our money they are gambling with.

There is only one solution, the first step has to be that our govt needs to get smaller and we must learn to be more independent .

BTW, I will accept a higher tax rate for myself if the govt pays back debt with it and proves to me they wont waste it on self entitlements or wars we dont need.












Quote:
Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
I'm glad to hear that we agree that more tax cuts aren't the solution. You are right, we don't know what level of debt is sustainable. Which is why we should increase revenue in order to slow debt expansion and buy ourselves more time for the REAL solution to our debt problem --- more jobs.

I could support entitlement reforms for the poor, if they were paired with tax revenue increases on behalf of the wealthy. If granny has to turn down the heat a few degrees in the winter in order to save our country, so should the top 10% of wage earners. And all the folks in between too. But this "cuts only" entitlement reform idea, as if we can fund the rebuilding of our country out of the shallow pockets of the poor, disabled, elderly, and unemployed, while leaving the deep pockets of the wealthy untouched is delusional. No country can rebuild itself using the money out of the pockets of their poor, disabled, elderly, and unemployed. The money just isn't there. If you are looking for money, you have to go where the money is. Looking where the money isn't won't help.

We definitely need to encourage private sector investment in America. I don't have a problem with Public-private partnerships, except when that means that the Profits are privatized, while the Risk is socialized. We've had too much of that already. If we are going to have Public-private partnerships, there need to be protections in place that strictly forbid the private side from profiteering and funneling wealth out of the partnership, leaving the debt to the gov't. That is what happened with Freddie/Fannie.

We have way too much Carrot incentives for businesses, and not enough Stick incentives. Tax haven zones are just another Carrot when we need sticks instead. We need to make it expensive for companies to close a factory in the US, instead of giving them a tax break to close a factory by letting them write off the cost of moving overseas on their taxes. We need to make it expensive for companies to move their corporate headquarters into a mailbox in the Caribbean. We need to make it expensive to renounce your citizenship in order to avoid paying taxes. We need to make it expensive to shuffle profits into offshore straw-subsidiary shell companies, and keep those profits offshore.