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      08-03-2011, 03:23 PM   #64
Legion5's Avatar

Drives: e92
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA

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Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Wow misinformation galore...
  1. There are NOT abrasives in an lubricating oils in the M3 nor any other production car.
  2. The engine internals do not need to be heat cycled to harden them.
  3. The car most likely does not come with special break in fluids.

In addition:
  1. All modern engines are taken to redline multiple times in the factory likely before the engine and chassis are even mated.
  2. Factory break in procedures are probably as much or even more for the tranny and diff as the engine itself.
  3. Anecdotal evidence about soft vs. hard break in does not establish that one or the other will consistently produce a broken in engine with more power. This takes study, science and maybe some statistics to prove
  4. That being said it does appear pretty clear that most engines make more power after broken in than when totally fresh.

Lastly to Legion5:
Since you are so prone to calling folks out to list their experience/sources/degrees/etc. then that comes right back to you. Please tell us the F1 teams and engineers you've spoken with about engine break in and provide the exact (or nearly exact) quotes from them. Along with that knowing the schools and topic of their PhDs would be most insightful. The reason for my request is genuine and 3 fold.
  1. I don't buy the stark contrast between factory recommended procedures and the hard break in philosophy.
  2. It is not all that likely that some random motorbike mechanic (your existing reference) is in perfect agreement with a typical F1 team. Either way the quality of this source is not at all up to that of your other sources you mention.
  3. If your sources really are that good, I (and probably the forum members in general) stand to learn quite a bit on this topic and it may alter our behaviors in the future.

Thanks in advance.
No offense but you come off like you're specifically trying to be negative here.

I can only tell you a few absolute facts. Firstly, while the break in proceedure I posted is writen by a motorcycle mechanic, it is very widely adopted in racing in different variations. To the point where variations of the proceedure I posted are as widely adopted the fundamental of methods for finding the right racing line around a track. Like finding the right way around a track everyone has their own technique that differs slightly, but it's all fundamentally similar to what was posted.

The other absolute fact is that like finding the right racing line around a track, people have put a lot of effort into perfecting it. Racing engine builders have poured litelrally hundreds of millions of dollars into research, and explored every new technique they can get their hands on, yet the technique still remains the same and fundamental with slight variations. This is first hand information from Cosworth staff, which are widely regarded as the best engine builders in the world. To the point where in racing cosworth builds all the engines for Mercedes and McLaren and each team just slap their name on them. Keep in mind this isn't something I gleamed when trying to prove my point on this thread. This information was initially presented when I sought to find a competetive edge with my engine in my race car. I looked into all the possibilities.

The final absolute fact is that BMW's proceedure is lame. It is the equivalent of going back to the racing line analogy, replacing a racing line with a bunch of speed limit markers set to the same level of grip and speed as street signs. As someone else mentioned, they were told by BMW's staff at the factory BMW's proceedure is a precaution.

Beyond these absolute facts everything is conjecture, this says nothing about the effects on the transmission or differential, and I don't know if BMW even essentially does the same widely accepted proceedure I posted themselves before putting the engine in the car.

Clean cars are happy cars!

Last edited by Legion5; 08-03-2011 at 03:29 PM.